28 replies to this topic

[catscradle77]

Police investigated the possiblilities that the Manson Family had a hand in the murder of Deborah Furlong and Kathy Snoozy. But as it turned out, a man named Karl Werner murdered them.

[Coroner In Law]

Karl F. Warner
On August 3, 1969, schoolmates Deborah Furlong, 14, and Kathy Snoozy, 15, rode their bikes to a wooded knoll overlooking their homes in the rugged Alameda Valley section of South San Jose, California. They brought a picnic lunch and meant to spend a quiet afternoon alone, unconscious of the fact that they had trespassed on a killer's private hunting ground.

When neither girl came home for supper, Debby Furlong's father started scouring the woods. He found a crowd of gawkers and police around the mutilated bodies of his daughter and her friend, laid out within a grove of trees from which their homes were visible. The medical examiner stopped counting at 300 stab wounds, all above the waist; in statements to the press, he would declare that "The Nazi sex mutilations during World War II were nothing compared to what was done to these young girls."

Infuriated parents launched patrols in San Jose, without result, while homicide investigators searched for clues. One theory linked the murders with an offshoot of the Manson "family"; another speculated on connections with the "Zodiac," an unidentified serial slayer whose latest mocking letter, on November 8, claimed seven victims rather than the five accounted for by solid evidence. It all came down to nothing in the end; the killer would remain at large for nearly two more years. before a new attack produced the necessary leads.

On April 11, 1971, 18-year-old Kathy Bilek chose the San Jose murder site as a prime spot for birdwatching. The killer found her there, using his favorite knife to stab her seventeen times in the back, thirty-two times in the chest and stomach, carefully avoiding contact with her breasts. Discovered early next morning, Bilek's wounds connected her murder with the previous killings, and police redoubled their efforts.

Two weeks later, armed with fresh descriptions of a suspicious man seen prowling the area, detectives focused their attention on Karl Warner, a former classmate of victims Furlong and Snoozy at Oak Grove High School. Warner lived with his parents, three blocks from the homes of the earliest victims, and he was also suspected in the stabbing of a woman who survived her wounds.

Police secured a warrant and surprised their suspect in the midst of-preparation for a college physics test. Their search turned up the murder knife, and Warner pled guilty on all counts in September 1971, receiving a sentence of life imprisonment. A background check eliminated him as a potential "Zodiac," since he had moved to California from Marlborough, Massachusetts, in early 1969, two and a half years after the first Zodiac murder.
from skcentral.com

[Eran]

Why were these murders linked to Manson, because of the multiple stab wounds in the corpses? Manson left Aselan insititute on Aug. 3, and went north, but he roamed mainly arounf Big Sur. San Jose was where Susan Atkins was raised, did he roamed there in August 1969 (before returning to Spahn)?

[Coroner In Law]

The murders were grisly and unsolved for some time and had slashing/stabbing.
Anything like that was examined as a matter of course by police in nearby jurisdictions.
They found their way to the killer on their own.

[Eran]

Just two weeks a go the bodies of two studetns were found in a burnt apartment in London, and the two suffered over 250 stab wounds. Maybe someone tried to copycat the Family modus operandis, espcecially after the interest in Susan Atkins' parole hearing.
However, the case of Deborah and Kathy is not the ame, because it was don BEFORE the Tate-LaBianca murders and only a week after the Gary Hinman murder.
Does anyone knows if they both came to Spahn Ranch in any time or were connected to Family members?

[Coroner In Law]

They were 14 & 15 at the time and not known to have met or befriended any mansonites.

[Eran]

Although they were in the "perfect age" for Manson, I too do think it is unlikely they were acquaintanced with the Mansonite, because they weren't drop-outs and didn't have the profile of the girls who got hooked by Manson.

[bryane]

It would be very hard not to look for a link from every murder scene to Manson.  The girls were threatening people from the courthouse, most of the family was still free, and willing to follow charlie's orders, and they even bragged a few times about 30+ victims.

I still believe they got away with a few other murders.  Maybe we can get a nice deathbed confession out of Sadie. 

[catscradle77]

In the case of the unsolved crimes it seems as if the family had any connection what so ever to the location, they were looked into for the possiblity that they did the murder.

I can not still reconcile in my head that Cielo Drive was Tex's first.

[catscradle77]

That is the thing---I don't believe it is anything that we have really come across, or put together yet. It is easy to blame him for a bunch, but the proof isnt anywhere...but no one becomes that haywire overnight, programming or no programming...

And coming from my friend who knew Tex back in the day, he said he was a sleazebucket and he would leave the room when Tex entered.

[Coroner In Law]

Quote

It is very natural for police, when it comes to unsolved murders, to look at someone with the same MO.
Care to speculate on which you think Tex did before Cielo, Cats?

Marina Habe, Mark Walts, Darwin Scott  all could be

[catscradle77]

Quote

Quote

It is very natural for police, when it comes to unsolved murders, to look at someone with the same MO.
Care to speculate on which you think Tex did before Cielo, Cats?

Marina Habe, Mark Walts, Darwin Scott  all could be

Habe is possible and would like to see if Tex is mentioned anywhere except as speculation as to ties to her. I know it is said he dated her, but is there any proof of such?

Walts--not too much known on his death...but Danny (COUGH AHEM) said that he didn't believe the Family did this one or he would have heard about it...(LOL)

[catscradle77]

Quote

Yes, we know that anything that came out of Danny's mouth is gospel.   ;D ;D ;D

Amen  :-*

[catscradle77]

It hasn't come back so I am guessing so.  ;D