15 replies to this topic

[simonwells61]

http://www.imdb.com/...b/vi1090716441/

I'm not sure if this film actually received a proper release. There's a lot of footage from all over the place which would be a nightmare to clear commercially. I had thought I had seen all the productions on the case, but this one's new to me. It is quite imaginative.

Regards

Si

[joe25]

I just finished watching the film. It's a great find, thanks for sharing. The Ronald Reagan Jr. interview (brief excerpt) with Manson was shown toward the end. What are your thoughts or hypotheses about the "black book" Leno LaBianca reportedly had in possession? Manson appears charged emotionally when talking about this "book" with "names and numbers controlling the music industry (paraphrase)". There is a reference to the "black book" in your book, "Coming Down Fast" (pg. 268) during the Geraldo interview. Thank you for consideration of my question, it is appreciated.

[simonwells61]

joe25, on 13 June 2010 - 05:09 AM, said:

I just finished watching the film. It's a great find, thanks for sharing. The Ronald Reagan Jr. interview (brief excerpt) with Manson was shown toward the end. What are your thoughts or hypotheses about the "black book" Leno LaBianca reportedly had in possession? Manson appears charged emotionally when talking about this "book" with "names and numbers controlling the music industry (paraphrase)". There is a reference to the "black book" in your book, "Coming Down Fast" (pg. 268) during the Geraldo interview. Thank you for consideration of my question, it is appreciated.

Dear Joe,

I watched the Reagan interview yesterday and really enjoyed Ron Jr's fearless style. I guess, given his relaxed persona, Charlie did as well. The black book scenario is a strange one- and something I wasn’t able to determine a straight answer for it. As far as I could make out, Leno had no contacts in the music industry, let alone anyone to do with Terry Melcher and co. However, from what I gathered, a black contact book was retrieved at the house, so Manson is correct that Leno had this in his possession. Also Charlie/Tex didn’t see fit to take it with them when they left. However, it's also possible that Manson is just being his usual mischievous self, and capitalising on the suspicions that have built up after the murders. Both Stephen Kay and Vincent Bugliosi told me that they dismissed any suspicions of LaBianca's alleged Mafia connections. For what it’s worth, if it was a Mob “hit”, I would have imagined something a bit more tangible to have come out over the last 40 years, other than Charlie’s provocative ramblings. Maybe something will surface in time.

All food for thought,

Regards
Si

[TooLate]

simonwells61, on 13 June 2010 - 08:38 AM, said:

However, it's also possible that Manson is just being his usual mischievous self, and capitalising on the suspicions that have built up after the murders.
Regards
Si

I support that possibility. If CM knows anything it's how to insert and inveigle himself where he has no business being - ring master of the circus and improviser extraordinaire.

[jempud]

simonwells61, on 12 June 2010 - 08:38 PM, said:

http://www.imdb.com/...b/vi1090716441/

I'm not sure if this film actually received a proper release. There's a lot of footage from all over the place which would be a nightmare to clear commercially. I had thought I had seen all the productions on the case, but this one's new to me. It is quite imaginative.

Regards

Si

Let's see if I can upload this recording of an extract from a 1974 BBC interview about Dennis Wilson's connections with Manson and his music: interviewers are Denis Taylor and David Anderle.

So, about 15 minutes letter we get a link in place that seems to work (click and try it)

http://static.boomp3...is+Wilson+Audio

But after too much pissing about I can't find the way to embed it.

One more try:



Yes, that did it (for me, at least) - sound takes about 5 secs to load up.

Anyway, I hope one of these works for you.

Thanks for this recording to Paul and apologies if it doesn't work on your VDU.

Jem

[simonwells61]

Oh Jem! What a wonderful piece of audio! Actually, just a couple of things, the other voices apart from Bob Harris (presenter) were Derek Taylor, Beach Boys and Beatles press officer; Nick Grillo, Beach Boys manager, and I believe Mike Love. The "close to 100 hours of music" recorded at Brian Wilson's studio threw me when I first heard it, as no one has ever mentioned anything this prolific before. I tried to get Mike Love to confirm this, but he, nor any of the retinue of the Beach Boys, would talk to me regarding CM. Fabulous piece of tape- thanks again!
Si

[paul]

Yep, the "100 hours claim is certainly enticing but Brian infamously destroyed some of his own extraordinary work so who knows how many, if any, of those hours are still extant. Even the 'LIE' album itself doesn't sound as if it was cut from the original master tapes...

It's also good to have further confirmation of the extent to which Brother Records were prepared to commit to Manson (perhaps retrospectively and conveniently claiming to be under heavy duress from Dennis).

It's certainly true that Gregg Jakobson has been known to downplay his proximity to Manson...

Just to clarify: the voices heard (other than presenter "Whispering" Bob Harris) are;

Brian's multi-talented friend David Anderle, pictured here with his purdy groovy portrait of Brian...



He was given the onerous task of setting up Brother Records with the B.B.'s Business Manager Nick Grillo, who also contributes.


And Derek taylor...

...the B.B.'s Press agent who was also The Beatles Press Agent which, tangentially, is a fact that makes me think it possible that Manson may indeed have heard an acetate copy of You Never Give Me Your Money which included the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 All Good Children... nursery rhyme and Spahn door legend... I digress...

Anyway, if you wanna download the edit I did you can do so here...

Download BBMBBCR1.74.mp3 from FileFactory.com

[catscradle77]

paul, on 19 August 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

Yep, the "100 hours claim is certainly enticing but Brian infamously destroyed some of his own extraordinary work so who knows how many, if any, of those hours are still extant. Even the 'LIE' album itself doesn't sound as if it was cut from the original master tapes...

It's also good to have further confirmation of the extent to which Brother Records were prepared to commit to Manson (perhaps retrospectively and conveniently claiming to be under heavy duress from Dennis).

It's certainly true that Gregg Jakobson has been known to downplay his proximity to Manson...

Just to clarify: the voices heard (other than presenter "Whispering" Bob Harris) are;

Brian's multi-talented friend David Anderle, pictured here with his purdy groovy portrait of Brian...



He was given the onerous task of setting up Brother Records with the B.B.'s Business Manager Nick Grillo, who also contributes.


And Derek taylor...

...the B.B.'s Press agent who was also The Beatles Press Agent which, tangentially, is a fact that makes me think it possible that Manson may indeed have heard an acetate copy of You Never Give Me Your Money which included the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 All Good Children... nursery rhyme and Spahn door legend... I digress...

Anyway, if you wanna download the edit I did you can do so here...

Download BBMBBCR1.74.mp3 from FileFactory.com

Hey Paul, did you get email from me? Been having issues with it and just wanted to say thanks to you for doing such a great job of the recording. And thanks to Jem for fixing right proper on the forum.

You guys rock.

[paul]

Hey there Cats,

I did, thanks, I think you may not have seen my reply yet... I tried it again an' it seemed to be o.k.

And yeah, Jem, I was remiss in failing to thank you for the embed... hope things are going swimmingly with you.

[jempud]

paul, on 19 August 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

...the B.B.'s Press agent who was also The Beatles Press Agent which, tangentially, is a fact that makes me think it possible that Manson may indeed have heard an acetate copy of You Never Give Me Your Money which included the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 All Good Children... nursery rhyme and Spahn door legend... I digress...

To continue the digression, here's a photo of the door to remind you:




Notice the Coming Down Fast (where have I heard that recently?) and the spelling of the Helter Scelter this time - seems they had never seen it written (?)

Let us not forget that "1,2,3,4,5,6,7 All Good Children...." was a nursery rhyme long before August 1969, but there doubtless will be those who want to claim that CM met the Beatles and they told him all the hidden meanings of their lyrics (sigh).

In England children still chant the elimination song:

"One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
All good children go to heaven,
Penny on the water,
Two pence on the sea,
Three pence on the railway,
Out goes she".

I gather the US version is different. Canada and Australia, any one?

Jem

[aliceathome]

simonwells61, on 12 June 2010 - 08:38 PM, said:

http://www.imdb.com/...b/vi1090716441/

I'm not sure if this film actually received a proper release. There's a lot of footage from all over the place which would be a nightmare to clear commercially. I had thought I had seen all the productions on the case, but this one's new to me. It is quite imaginative.

Regards

Si

It was on either BBC2 or BBC4 last year.

[simonwells61]

Paul forgive me, I really should credit your locating of this item as well. Thank you.

These miniscule degrees of separation of CM and the Fabs is something I find fascinating. Did anyone know that Melcher had worked for the Beatles' Apple label in 1968? Obviously, this information must have its way over to Manson. Furthermore. Derek Taylor, Beach Boys press agent, and once Beatles' press officer, could have crossed Manson's path at some point. Individual Beatles were present in L.A from 67-9 so there is just a possibility that they may have met with Manson at some point.

Si

[freebird]

Given the celebs Manson was aquainted with or friends with, what are the chances he didn't at least rub elbows with at least one of the Beatles during the 67-69 timeline? If you think about all the "big wigs" he supposedly knew, the ones we know about (and the ones that won't admit they ever knew him), it seems entirely possibe that he may have had a chance meeting with one or all of the Beatles. Didn't they play the Hollywood Bowl at some point? Producers usually get backstage passes don't they? They are invited to after parties. And Manson was the most angry at Melcher. Maybe Melcher refused M's request to go with him or maybe he took him along.. ...before it became evident that M was a nutjob.
Taking off the TFH now.

[jempud]

freebird, on 20 August 2010 - 01:44 AM, said:

Given the celebs Manson was aquainted with or friends with, what are the chances he didn't at least rub elbows with at least one of the Beatles during the 67-69 timeline? If you think about all the "big wigs" he supposedly knew, the ones we know about (and the ones that won't admit they ever knew him), it seems entirely possibe that he may have had a chance meeting with one or all of the Beatles. Didn't they play the Hollywood Bowl at some point? Producers usually get backstage passes don't they? They are invited to after parties. And Manson was the most angry at Melcher. Maybe Melcher refused M's request to go with him or maybe he took him along.. ...before it became evident that M was a nutjob.
Taking off the TFH now.

Their dates and itineraries on their visits to the States are fairly well documented (over to Simon here), but I guess it's impossible to rule out a chance encounter. Ships that pas in the night would be my closest description - whether they hailed each other or not is unknown, but if they did the message would have been brief as they each continued in their own directions.

I believe Paul has denied a meeting, but there could have been many close misses - there were very few degrees of separation in their live at certain moments, as is pointed out above. However, I think we can forget any idea that the Beatles knew or had long conversations with CM, while we can't rule out at least the possibility of a chance encounter with one or more of them.

Given the energy it might be possible to chart the dates the Beatles were in the States in the late 60s and very early 70s and map CM's movements on to that (or vice versa), but personally I'd need some persuading it was a worthwhile exercise.

Jem

[simonwells61]

jempud, on 20 August 2010 - 02:06 AM, said:

Their dates and itineraries on their visits to the States are fairly well documented (over to Simon here), but I guess it's impossible to rule out a chance encounter. Ships that pas in the night would be my closest description - whether they hailed each other or not is unknown, but if they did the message would have been brief as they each continued in their own directions.

I believe Paul has denied a meeting, but there could have been many close misses - there were very few degrees of separation in their live at certain moments, as is pointed out above. However, I think we can forget any idea that the Beatles knew or had long conversations with CM, while we can't rule out at least the possibility of a chance encounter with one or more of them.

Given the energy it might be possible to chart the dates the Beatles were in the States in the late 60s and very early 70s and map CM's movements on to that (or vice versa), but personally I'd need some persuading it was a worthwhile exercise.

Jem

George was in San Francisco in August '67 and then at Big Sur for a few days after that. He also made a trip over to be in the Smothers Bros TV show a year later. I believe Ringo was with him as well. Paul was in L.A/SF in early '67 and then again in August 68. Peter Tork of the Monkees said to me that George and Rings came to a party at his house in Laurel Canyon in the summer of '68, so there is a possibility, like Jem said, that they could have been in each others slipstream. But I think someone would have confirmed the connection - not least Charlie. Nonetheless, I still find it all hugely fascinating that they could have been in the same room together at some point. Mind you, as the Fabs were completely tired of insane Beatlemaniacs at that point, I imagine a meeting with Manson would be a somewhat depressing experience.

Si

[uzername]

paul, on 19 August 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

Yep, the "100 hours claim is certainly enticing but Brian infamously destroyed some of his own extraordinary work so who knows how many, if any, of those hours are still extant. Even the 'LIE' album itself doesn't sound as if it was cut from the original master tapes...

It's also good to have further confirmation of the extent to which Brother Records were prepared to commit to Manson (perhaps retrospectively and conveniently claiming to be under heavy duress from Dennis).

It's certainly true that Gregg Jakobson has been known to downplay his proximity to Manson...

Just to clarify: the voices heard (other than presenter "Whispering" Bob Harris) are;

Brian's multi-talented friend David Anderle, pictured here with his purdy groovy portrait of Brian...



He was given the onerous task of setting up Brother Records with the B.B.'s Business Manager Nick Grillo, who also contributes.


And Derek taylor...

...the B.B.'s Press agent who was also The Beatles Press Agent which, tangentially, is a fact that makes me think it possible that Manson may indeed have heard an acetate copy of You Never Give Me Your Money which included the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 All Good Children... nursery rhyme and Spahn door legend... I digress...

Anyway, if you wanna download the edit I did you can do so here...

Download BBMBBCR1.74.mp3 from FileFactory.com

Brian Wilson "destroying" tapes is a myth. A convenient excuse that amounts to saying "the tapes are in the vault and I'm not getting them out". At most he may have recorded over previously recorded tracks during sessions to make room but that is common practice. Even the infamous "Fire" tapes which were supposedly burnt and destroyed due to being like withcraft were just in the vaults.

SOMEONE has those Manson tapes. Maybe they're just locked away somewhere but still, I don't believe they're been destroyed at all.