The story of how Manson met Dennis Wilson is well documented...Dennis picks up 2 girls, hase sex with them, departs for studio, comes back to find Manson and more girls at his house the same night/morning... What I have wondered for a while is why did Manson come so quickly after being called by the 2 girls? Everything I have read about him kinda indicates that he wasn't "easily impressed" and yet he packs up everyone in the black bus and heads up there the same day to meet Dennis. Maybe I am crazy, but it just seems weird. Like he had been waiting for a chance to sink his claws into someone who could help him out in the record biz. I dunno. Any thoughts? NJB
[quote author=sbsugar link=topic=4716.msg43682#msg43682 date=1261185985] The story of how Manson met Dennis Wilson is well documented...Dennis picks up 2 girls, hase sex with them, departs for studio, comes back to find Manson and more girls at his house the same night/morning... What I have wondered for a while is why did Manson come so quickly after being called by the 2 girls? Everything I have read about him kinda indicates that he wasn't "easily impressed" and yet he packs up everyone in the black bus and heads up there the same day to meet Dennis. Maybe I am crazy, but it just seems weird. Like he had been waiting for a chance to sink his claws into someone who could help him out in the record biz. I dunno. Any thoughts? NJB [/quote] You silly girl you. Dennis Wilson was a Beach Boy and Manson must have seen his meal ticket to Hollywood. I believe I seen in an MSNBC interview [on youtube or on MSNBC itself] where CM said that Dennis Wilson told him as they were both under the influence of Hippie-Lettuce [ and I paraphrase here] " Bro, I'm gonna take you to Beverly Hills and then to Hollywood. Charlie you're gonna be a star." And Charlie then gets some soul in his step, like the Temptations, and Charlie, slides back like & says; " I'm gonna be a....whaaa? " (as he was reciting the story) [snip] So yeah Azucar if that's what you were thinking then I concur...with. P.S. I hope with a name like 'Sugar that you are a girl. 'Cause if not that'll make as much sense as a girl looking for a Vinegar Daddy in her life. [that's the opposite of a Sugar Daddy] Scorpio
Sorry, Scorpio, but I am indeed a guy. The username is a shortened form of an old nickname (Sweet Brown Sugar) in my basketball days. Thanks for the insight re: Dennis Wilson. I noticed that Dennis is posted under the "Possible Manson Related deaths"...is there any evidence that supports this? NJB
None and I should probably move Dennis to the debunked section. The rumor was there. So I shall move him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Karpis Refer imprisonment section. Manson had a life or rather fame plan and was determined to find a leg up despite saying he wanted no release. An interesting quote from his Father figure Alvin Karpis was that Karpis intended killing a President since this is how you deal with those who cross you!
Well Dennis was in a very famous band and had all the connections Manson could use. Not only that but Dennis himself considered himself a free spirit type as well so he and Manson probably legitimately got along. There's a clipping somewhere of an interview in 1967 where Dennis talks about his friend "The Wizard" who showed him a crazy dance. He also says he scares him sometimes. No kidding, haha. Manson must have thought that by befriending Dennis (with his own charisma, drugs, and the girls) that he would have a sure foot in to the business. After all Dennis could say "I quit unless we get Charlie a deal" and because he was part of the Wilson Brothers Beach Boys they would've caved in to his demand. Dennis' music of that time reflects Charlie's influence. No musically but lyrically. On the song "Little Bird" from the 1968 Friends album, co-written with Gregg Jackobson I believe, the lyrics are VERY Charlie. "Little bird up in a tree looked down and sang a song to me of how it began." I always thought the "Little Bird" was Charlie, actually. He's little, he sings, and he tells of "how it began". Another song on that album has a Maharishi/Manson type feel to it, I think it's called Be Still, just a short little meditation type of song. "Be still and know you are, your life was meant to be, it's all so deep within, ahhhhhhhh". Tell me that's not something Manson would sing... The music career aspirations of Manson strike me as the oddest thing about the whole case for various reasons. One, Manson has never come out and admitted that he had such personal ambitions, that one could say are EGOIC ambitions. Charlie has never admitted that he wanted to be something in the music business, as attested to by Alvin Karpis and of course he constant dealings with industry people and musicians after getting out. He hints that the girls did the murders to say "hey look at this guy", meaning to draw public attention to Charlie. Maybe there is some truth here? Although it sounds just like another way for Charlie to explain away what happened without fully implicating himself. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that, had Manson secured himself some sort of deal, and followed through with what seems to have been some part of the "plan" in getting his words out to the kids and drawing them into the desert (at least, figuratively), he would've become just as controversial as he is now. Just that the media/public would view him as an eccentric dangerously influential songwriter with a following more like a discipleship than a killer. The FBI worked at shutting John Lennon up, and he was just talking about war. Just imagine how they'd react to Manson gaining millions of followers through his albums if he was singing Cease To Exist? It's interesting to note how Manson took concepts which were not alien to the times - ego-death, alternate ways of living beyond the normal structure of society - and inserted himself as the centerpiece of it all. It's CEASE TO EXIST, COME SAY YOU LOVE ME, GIVE UP YOUR WORLD, COME ON YOU CAN BE WITH ME. It's not just about freeing yourself from oppressive systems of thought and behavior but actually flocking to Manson, adoring him as someone beyond yourself. This seems to have been the condition of the Family. At least, the girls. It's interesting what Manson's ex-cellie says in the Hendrickson documentary about never perceiving Charlie to be a leader, at all, in prison, but a follower, and not just a follower but someone too eccentric to even be taken seriously. And yet Charlie gets out and is taken SO seriously by all those kids that they kill for him or by his wishes? Very weird.
In prison i believe Manson didnt have the appropriate audience to recieve his message. Convicts were surely not going to follow, let alone worship a puny little weirdo like Charlie. Naive teenagers and young adults disillusioned with the "system" and mores of the previous generation were another matter. The turbulence of the time period, resulting in underground movements and nontraditional leaders w/ a smorgasboard of ideas/philosophies at the time, was a perfect storm for someone like Charlie. He couldnt have planned a better environment conducive to a con man like himself than California in the late 1960's. Uzername, you are right on the $. DennisW was a potential meal ticket extrodinare for Charlie. I think his musical aspirations are the most under rated aspect of the whole Manson story. He just had neither the discipline nor the flexiblility to accept professional criticism from others who were more experienced and talented than he was. Unfortunately for him, he couldnt play Jesus/guru guy, then go into studio WITH his followers(they were often there as well), and allow people to alter his message or music. He would lose face. He kinda couldnt see the forrest for the trees. He needed his gang/family to support his wants, needs, desires, etc, but couldnt hang on to them if he was percieved to be a sell out. If he had enough alone time w/ Dennis, Melcher, Jakobsen, and others he MIGHT have been able to make a go of it. That is a stretch though as his schtick was wearing thin of these fellows anyway. Too egomanical. JMHO. Good post uzername, you made some good points, thanks.
