Who untied her hands?

Who untied Rosemary LaBianca's hands?

As I understand it, Manson and Watson went into the house, rounded up the LaBiancas, tied their hands behind their backs. Manson goes and gets the girls then leaves the scene. The girls go in and take Rosemary into the bedroom. She was untied when she was swinging the lamp at PK and LVH. At what point and why did someone untie her hands?

FB



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Wouldn't it depend, at least in part, on what Rosemary's hands were tied with, and how tightly? If memory serves, Leno's hands were tied with a leather thong that Manson was always wearing, but there's no mention that I recall of Watson or anyone else bringing a rope to the party on the second night. It may have been that they tied Rosemary's hands with a kitchen towel or a drapery tie-back or even with the belt on her robe if she was wearing one -- and I doubt very much if she was just standing there quietly letting them do it, so whatever they used it might have been quite challenging to tie it tight enough.

Could be that between the time she was originally tied up, and the time she got to the bedroom and started swinging lamps, she got out of her bonds.

On the other hand, we only have Charlie and Tex's word for it that she was ever tied up at all, don't we?

As for the dress over her nightgown, I have no idea. It's another one of those "huh?" things, of which there are many in this case.

Did Mrs. LaBianca have her tieds at anytime? Tex doesn't mention it.......but he does say when Mrs. LaBianca put the dress on......

http://www.aboundinglove.org/sensational/wydfm/wydfm-o15.php

It's not what the killers said that obfuscated truth......it's what they didn't say or testify about ......the lies of omission......

I think it was Leslie and Pat that tied her hands with the lamp cord - it was also wrapped around her neck over the pillowcase - I remember reading something along those lines - the girls were struggeling with her and the lamp fell of the bedside table - something along those lines - seems like it was Leslie that talked about it from what I remember.

When Charlie came out and told the girls to go in, he said that R & L were tied up and calm, don't create fear in them. I always assumed that Rosemary was tied up with a leather thong. Same as Leno. At some point someone untied her and let her get dressed (sort of). They were going somewhere, why else would you get dressed in the middle of the night. Leno didn't dress because he wasn't going. Maybe there is more to RLB than we have given attention to. Makes me wonder where Rosemary got all that money she supposedly had?

FB

I'll have to do some checking on this one....
In her 1993 Parole Hearing (transcript) Krenwinkel stated they, "tried to tie her up" but Mrs. LaBianca was struggling.

I just watched the Sawyer interview. LVH states that both were tied up when she and PK went in the house and they took Rosemary into the bedroom. She must have gotten loose herself or they untied her so she could dress herself to go somewhere. I guess they didn't think Rosemary would try and bash their brains out with that lamp.......

FB

Good question FB, maybe charlie in trying to calm rosemary down was just being a Gent and allowed her to put a dress on to cover her modesty?
Long shot or not?

I need to make a correction. It was the Larry King interview not Sawyer.

Cooltide,
It's possible. Maybe she was changing, heard voices and just slipped her dress on over the nightgown. Not intending to go anyplace at all. Perhaps we have made to much of an innocent act of decency?

FB

Where did I hear that Rosemary was naked in bed originally?

I never heard that BB. If she was naked why would she put a dress and a nightgown on?

FB

If you believe him. Watson says that Charlie went into the bedroom to get Rosemary and she came out wearing a blue dress. My take on it is that Rosemary was in her nightgown and heard voices from the sitting room, wondered who the guests were and put on the dress over the top of her night clothes to greet them, or Charlie went in to get her and allowed her to put the dress on to cover her modesty.

Well, then maybe she was wearing a see through nightgown with nothing on underneath and she put on her dress to cover up. Somewhere, somehow, I heard that, I just can't seem to remember where. :blink:

Here is a quote from Nuel Emmons' book about what happened according to Manson.

I handed Tex a leather thong and had him tie the fellow's hands behind his back while I went into the bedroom after his wife. Like here husband, she was asleep. I pulled the covers off of her and touched her shoulder, saying, "Wake up, lady, you got company." Her sleep eyes focused on me. Then, with a start, she sat up and grabbed for the covers in an effort to hide her body. She had a nightgown on, but to assist her in her modesty, I handed her a dress that was folded over the back of a chair. She quickly pulled it over her nightgown, and said, "What are you doing here? What do you want?"

I read further and never saw any mention of him tying her up so that may have been an afterthought. This is of course conditional on whether Emmons' book is legit.

Thanks Wessel. It explains the odd attire but not the tied / untied hands.

FB

I think the idea of the hit team calming, or letting Rosemary put on a dress over a nightgown for modesty sake is not correct. Going by there past actions, the Mansoids had no feelings towards those they encountered. It seems as if Rosemary was going to be taken some place, (get your dress on lady you are coming with us)-----------was this a ploy to shakedown Leo, so he would hand over some big money, drugs, or the alleged black book? However, this theory has a hole in it, because the hit squad had no wheels, and after the murder they had to leg it and hitch it out of the LaBianca's affluent Los Feliz neighborhood. But as I have posted in the past, this does not make sense, you do a crime and you have no escape vehicle. Just how dumb were these people-the hit teams? Or were they smartly directed to give bogus answers as in being mentally fragged-MKULTRA, and was there a vehicle? But according to V. Bugs and some of the testimony, the hit team thumbed it to the Ranch after murdering the Lobiancas... I wonder? So many things with the Manson group and there exploits and murders do not make sense.

They had access to the victim's cars.
FB

I was going to say that, but you beat me to the punch.