Discussion in 'Abigail Folger' started by Mike, Aug 28, 2010.
I'll say!!! That one got me thinking . . . . . :hmmm:
I'm pretty sure Folger felt her life leaving her and maybe wanted to spend her last seconds in whatever peace she could find, not being butchered.
And that is a sad thought.
I responded on someone's post, but didn't see it displayed...
I am just learning to use this forum...
I think you have a very good point...her reputation meant everything to her...if the newspapers wrote about her going to a show in San Francisco (see Abigail Folger...Cat's Cradle...newspaper article)
think of the heyday they would have had with this news getting out about her...
Even though, supposedly, the original idea was to go to 10050 Cielo Drive for Terry Melcher, they end up here...
Who is to say that neighbors might not have something in common...similar drug habits...
Abigail, "would just die" if this were to get out...
I always understood it as an "enough already" sort of thing. They said that it was hard to kill the people, they didn't realize how hard it would be, so just imagine it from the perspective of the person being killed...
I agree....... (3) assumptions are being made about Abigail Folger's statement, "I'm already dead", as reported by Krenwinkel:
Assumption: Abigail Folger made the statement--we don't know with certainty what was or wasn't said by Ms. Folger or anyone else the night they were killed, do we?
Assumption: Krenwinkel was truthful about what went down at Cielo Dr. the night of the murders.
Assumption: Krenwinkel recalled without distortion, what she had seen, heard, and did at Cielo Dr., the night of the murders.
At what point did this whole statement come to light? When was it first brought up?
I don't know when or where she made the statement, but PK said it in the interview with Diane Sawyer
I think it was an interview about "The Manson Girls"
I doubt Abigail said anything, she was dying from edema and a damaged aorta amongst other injuries. She was no doubt gurgling blood, and her inner cavities were filled with blood and her lungs were collapsing-----she was gasping for breath---no time to utter any last words. Remember Susan Atkins claimed she stabbed repeatedly with her knife at Cielo, then her knife is found in a chair-couch--- no blood- no fingerprints. But Atkins was certain she used that knife to slaughter, but evidence puts that Helter Skelter story on the fantasy heap. I would think Krenwinkel's account is as false as Atkins. The hit team seemed to be programed to say some horrible things, but the evidence of a lot of their supposed deeds, negates their words.
How Many of you have had major surgery. The reason I asked this is think back about the emotions you were having, all the thoughts that were running through your mind just as you were being wheeled into the operating room thinking it would be your last day while knowing you were in a controlled setting. I had major surgery in 2005 The day was Friday the 13th and all I could think about was my family. I really had no thought of where I was. I just wanted out and back to an area I felt safe in. There is no way we will ever know what thoughts the victims had in their last hellish night on Earth and if they said anything at all, Like posted earlier these words may have been made up to make the killers feel as thought they had done their victims a favor by releasing them from a planet they thought was going to end in Helter Skelter.
Maybe. Maybe not.
According to Atkins, she watched Watson stab Folger once in the living room. She never mentions Folger again, until she says she, Watson and Krenwinkel were walking out of the house. It was then she claims to have seen Folger falling into the grass, which prompted Watson to "go over and stab her three or four - I don't know how many times..."
When did Folger receive the penetrating wound to her aorta? Was that the fist stab wound? The ninth? The seventeenth? Or the twenty-eighth? See the problem? We don't know when she received that wound, so there's no way of knowing what she was capable of doing. If she was gasping for breath and couldn't speak, how was she able to run down the hallway, out the door and onto the front lawn?
Maybe it's as a result of reading it in a book, but Garreston also said he heard Folger say she was already dead.
Is this when Garrettson was out behind the building hiding? Or maybe, to take it from the start, Mike, Abigail said that BEFORE she was stabbed, in reference to her parents being mad at her, then the girls took it out of context and used it as they wished.
Garretson hiding is in reference to Saunders.
Okay, just had another thought. What if Gibby said, "Take me. I'm dead already." Meaning, take ME, not Sharon, Voyteck, or Jay to wherever they wanted to take somebody to do whatever they wanted them to do for a drug deal, etc.
I think it was a figure of speech. Kind of like, just quit stabbing me - I know I am going to die and there's no need to hurt me anymore. I think - and who knows, it's just my belief - that people know when they're going to die. And her injuries? Savage butchery indeed. I cannot even wrap my head around what she must have thought, or what poor Sharon was thinking inside that house with that psycho Susan Atkins holding onto her. I have thought and thought about it, but I still cannot quite picture that terrible, terrible scene - just too surreal.
But back to Abigail - didn't Leno LaBianca say something similar, pleading with Watson to stop the stabbing because he knew he wasn't going to make it out alive?
Yes, ma'am. Watson claimed Leno LaBianca said, "I'm dead, I'm dead..."
So maybe this whole I'm dead business is coming from the minds of the murderers and not from the mouths of the victims? I know, Garretson says he heard it too, but I have to ask myself what parts of Garretson's recent revelations are recovered memory and what parts are the result of what he may have read through the years. I'm not suggesting he is lying at any point, merely that our minds play tricks on us and things we think we remember are quite often different from what really happened.
Here are a couple of examples of how much we can miss, even when we think we are paying close attention -
Did you see it? OK, now watch this video, and please, try to pay very close attention.
Do you see how much you don't see, just when you are being distracted by something you perceive to be more important? And add to this the fact that one portion of our brains is designed to help us actually forget what we think is useless information and where does that leave us?
Hey, Mike, do you happen to know, or any medical people out there, how long it would take someone to die from a penetrating wound in the aorta? I think you said, it could of been her second stab wound, somewhere in between or the last coup de grace to finally kill her. Do the MEs know which stab wounds were received first, second, etc., or in the autopsy reports, do they list them according from top to bottom, side to side or larger to smaller, however they list the number of wounds? From what I'm reading on here, Abigail was the last to die instead of Sharon. For some reason, I'm reading now that after the murderers walked out of the house after killing Sharon, they saw Abigail trying to make a run for it, when all this time, I thought she was chased out by Krenwinkle before Sharon was killed. Confusion? And now for another head scratcher? With Voytek so close to the door and Abigail not that far, why did they chose Sharon's blood to write pig? And if that purple scarf thing was laying next to Voy or in the vicinity, why didn't she just use that instead of going inside the house and getting a towel, and she did say she sort of didn't want to do it, why not take the lazy way out and use what was right there in front of her and readily available, or was she still lagging behind in the house, maybe, when Tex told her to write something witchy? Since you and Cats are the wise and knowing ones, I'm asking an impossible question to answer, but you say you two talk, so maybe this is something you might of touched upon in your many discussions.
oops! I agree totally. The mention of LaB was the first thing, I had just read this today and it was a revelation. Do you think that these were "excited utterances"? Because if they were, then if it were me, I would maybe be thinking - Enough already! I'm already dead! Punching( stabbing) over and over with no relief...