i mean even we have Garretson in the suspects thread. So there must be some doubt as to his involvement. There is such little evidence to point to him as a suspect,and there is more evidence that points to him not being a involved,even if it is circumstantial,its more probable than possible that he was only a witness to the killings and not any part of it. And i think today we have shown this. If you cant prove it don't use it.If you do and it goes to court,you`re career and reputation is on the line.
Exactly only until all other possibilities,within reason have been excluded ,then a theory will become an accepted fact. It can however still be challenged either from a factual point or a theoretical point,but if it can not be broken or challenged any futher it must remain as a fact. Evidence should be challenged,the prosecution expect it. Even with a confession a case has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt.
We cannot exclude theories because we do not like where they are going. I do not intend to pursue whether Manson levitated the bus in Goler Wash. Not because, of my personal religious beliefs, not because I have any particular opinion about Manson. Simply because it is not relevant to this case.
He probably rather than possibly came in the back route,if that helps. I dont think any of the guest house et al Garretson helps at all. He has had a lot of chances to say what he saw,and like CM,is always breif and unexact about the exact fact.
[quote author=catscradle77 link=topic=1917.msg12942#msg12942 date=1204724320] PK is the one who said she went to the guesthouse. Billy had changed his story so much, that to take anything he says as reality would be like taking that Rosie Polanski was indeed the daughter of Sharon. Being that Billy bought this, and I think married her, should speak for his credibility alone. [/quote] see! shoulda come to this post first before posting under the Bill Nelson post!..should/ coulda /woulda..I agree absolutely with the above! ...didn't know he married her tho ???
You know, in a way that night stopped the clock for him. Not as profoundly as if he'd been a victim, but for the rest of his life he's associated with that night. Nothing else he could do since would really matter to the majority of people he'd run across. Did a doorknob turn? Did a person scream? Did he look out a window? If you think about it, there has been a night like this for all of us. A noise wakes us up, maybe it could've been gunshots, or maybe it was just a door slamming. The difference is, the police didn't come knocking on our door in the morning. It probably was nothing after all. I don't really think being unclear in his case means that he's being flaky or elusive. He probably doesn't remember some things, doesn't remember the difference between what he's been told and what he saw or heard, and mostly would prefer to not have to live with that night, that place and those people attached to his name. The police seemed to have trouble opening the door that morning, I'd say they wiped out any prints, and also showed what might have kept him alive when/if Pat came looking.
I agree with the first part. The clock definitely stopped for him. I believe he is a victim here even if he had some tangential involvement. I am certain it was under some sort of duress real or imagined. As for his stories, I still don't think he knows what happened that night.
i can't say he's not involved or not lying, but I know that if I'm asleep and my neighbors need help they're probably not going to get it from me unless they can keep the racket going for a while. One night I did happen to be awake about 3 am one night and distinctly heard what sounded like 5 gunshots. I called the police and even went outside to see if anyone was running around, but everything was still. So even at our best, if we don't know what's going on, we're not always much help. I went to sleep that night pretty much convinced that somebody in the neighborhood would be reporting his wife missing in the next few days.
I personally believe he is innocent of any involvement that night. I believe he may very well have seen Pat/Katie and Abigail out the window that night. I believe it scared the crap out of him and he hid. I think he was afraid to admit that he did not come to her aid. I think everything since then has become muddled and that he cannot even sort it out now. I cannot prove that this is true. It is just what I believe. It is a tragic circumstance. It effectively ended any real productivity he may have had in this life, as you said. Just my two cents.
That's very close to they way I see it, Birds. I don't know if he saw anything, but if he did, I believe that Garretson would have been so terrified (who wouldn't) that he either hid or just froze. In a way, he's also a victim.
Yes, but he is a midwestern boy of his era and the prevailing macho mentality would not have allowed him to admit fear. Especially of a woman. I think he hid and then lied because of shame. Just my opinion. I definitely consider him a victim of that night along with Mrs. Chapman.
you know the other thing is maybe PK doesn't remember what she did... she could have been distracted by I DON'T KNOW screaming people, stabbing, blood squirting everywhere and having her friends yell at her too... just a thought... :
Not sure anyone comes out of this sorry saga with any credit attached to them. Garrettson??? He probably got scared by what he heard or saw, hid out back till it calmed down, then went back inside. The next morning, the cops come knocking ... and he's mixed up ins something way way over his head, however tangenitally, as he's probably been doing his best to forget it ever since. Anyone touched directly by TLB has had their lives defined by it.
If I remember correctly wasn't it written that when LAPD approached the guest house the next morning they heard sounds and once they tried the door, didn't Christopher the dog chomp down on the barrel of shotgun one of the officers had in hand. If the dog could hear the officers outside in the morning wouldn't the dog have heard Patricia Krenwinkle try the door knob that night, because she would have rattled the door knob had it not been working correctly and it surely would have made noise, I am sure she was not afraid to enter the guest house since she was there to kill everyone Maybe she did think Steven was the care taker and knowing he was taken care of she decided to return to the main house where she could be more help.
As Patricia would have known instinctlively, who knows what's behind a closed door. If it's a caretaker, maybe it's some big burly guy who could take her down. She's not to know it's just some stoned kid.Discretion is the better part of being a murderer in this instance, so she tries the door quietly, dog doesn't hear it, WG sees it, or doesn't, depending on where he is, and then she backs off.
Garretson has changed his story to much. I think it is pretty clear on his actions that night. He witnessed at least Abigal being murdered and then got scared and hid the rest of the night
I've wondered the same thing Jesse2112 but how could he have fallen asleep then? If he really knew people or at least one person was being killed how could he have stayed in the guesthouse at all? You'd think once it was daylight and quiet he'd have wandered outside and saw the carnage on the front lawn and got the hell outta there?
I'll say it again. I think Wills saw a LOT that night, mabye even the murder of Voytek, too, for all we know, and I think it was too much for his mind and he snapped, then being paraded around to see if he knew who all the victims were, and then had to spend two or three days in jail being relentlessly questioned by detectives, I think he's never been the same since. Maybe he suppressed or repressed what he saw because of being so traumatized mentally, and that is why he changes his story. Or we could go with he's the original KATO KAYLEN (spelling), and is withholding vital info because he's scared still of the Manson family hard cores and their many fans that still exist today. Look at all the people who knew the victims who are still not 'fessing up because of whatever implications they think will happen. I still think his mind snapped by the butchery and the unwarranted savagery that he witnessed, and he probably heard the screams, perhaps he heard the shots being fired, too, who knows, and his brain does what brains do when traumatized-its protecting him from the horrors he saw. Too Late or any mental professional, could that be a reasonable assumption?
