How else could he have went through the house and not be noticed? Did not Gibby wave to the girl who passed the room. She must have known Tex, if she seen the giel she must have seen him.
Welcome, Crawler. I think the truth is that we don't know that Gibby waved to anyone. All this info about what happened at the time of the killings is very unreliable, and comes from people whose testimony can not really be trusted. The fact that it is repeated ad nauseam in article after article, book after book, doesn't make it any truer. Which doesn't help in supporting the theory that Gibby knew (or didn't know) Tex. One other thing. You say " if she seen the giel she must have seen him". That doesn't necessarily follow. Although I think it very likely that Gibby did see Tex before her death. Enjoy your time here. Jem
:welcome: Crawler. According to testimony Tex told Susan to go find out how many were in the rest of the rooms. He stayed in the living room with Frykowski. Folger wouldn't have seen him until they were brought out of their bedrooms into the living room. I feel comfortable in saying that she saw more of Tex than she wanted to in the following minutes.
Welcome Crawler to Truth on Tate LaBianca Forums. I am not sure whether or not the victims knew any of their killers. I bounce back and forth on this. Other than Abigail waving to Susan, what other things make you think that?
According to Maury Terry he had an FBI opperative who claims he was at dinner in San Francisco with Charles Manson,Abigail Folger,and Manson Family member Shorty Shea in September 1967..he also states that a former FBI undercover agent told him that Manson met Folger in San Francisco and had given him money.Manson turned against Folger when she wouldnt give him anymore money and refused to come across to him sexually...all of this comes from Maury Terrys book and also a good article on Lamag.com which is from a published article from 1988.
Cram- Do you have this article, or perhaps it is the one I am thinking of ... Everyone seems to quote this Maury Terry-and I cannot source anything other than this for the Folger/Manson connection. Terry, it seems, has gone deeply underground or just doesnt care to answer. A great part of me wishes he would surface to address some things... Cats
I dont have the article and i dont ever seem to get the links to work but i found it by chance on the said website from june 1988..the article is called The Charlie Conspiracy.As you say he quotes alot of FBI opperatives and informants in his book and in articles but it ends there...if what he claims is true!!!..Ive looked about abit and its hard to find out alot about him but your right he does need to address these claims he makes.
Cram... You say " and family member Shorty Shea " is that part of the article. First time I ever heard Shorty being refered to that way.
yes it is refered to that way..again the article is easy to find and its a very interesting read..especially if youve not read "The Ultimate Evil"..by Maury Terry.
I think I have posted that article somewhere or I have it and will... Yes, I remember the supposed dinner between Abigail, Manson and Shorty mentioned.
If you look at what Louis Tackwood has to say about the LAPD running plants into organizations too, it all becomes very interesting. I don't remember the source for the Family having "Plants" in it- though I am leaning towards Sanders for some reason. There seems to be a tangled web of interaction between everyone, and though Terry seems far out on certain jumps he makes, the resemblance of Wheat Carr and her brothers to the one Son of Sam composite is remarkable.
ye..i agree with you regarding the Son of Sam case..and for whatever reason California was awash with FBI,CIA and the NSA among others during that period..even if some of this was due to Operation Chaos which was in effect during that same time.
Sorry..if anyone didnt know Operation Chaos was the code name for a domestic espionage project conducted by the CIA..etc during the late 60s..apparently the Esalen Institute and the Haight-Asbury Free center were awash with agency personnel at this time..Manson,Folger and the rest of them were well know visiters during this period as we all know.
Anyone heard of Charlie even meeting Shorty prior the family bus rolling into Spahn Ranch? Im not saying it didnt happen I have just never heard this before. Also Shorty seemed about as anti-Family as you could get. While I agree America, especially California, was awash in undercovers and informers in the late 60's why would they be interested in a two bit loser pimp like Charlie? The worst thing he'd done up to that point was steal cars, checks, and hustle girls, not your basic FBI case material.
As I understand it the CIA's Operation Chaos was aimed mainly at stopping the Black Panthers and the anti war movement (which included the SDS - Students for a Democratic Society, Weatherman etc ). I'm not sure what Manson could have been doing that would have alerted the CIA to his activities?
Again it comes back to Maury Terry..he needs to come out and give us some answers..as far as i know its only through him and his CIA/FBI informers that there is a link between Folger and Manson going back to 1967..and im sure he says that an agent was at the dinner with Folger,Manson and Shorty.It was Terry again who states one of his contacts,an Israeli with links to the intelligence community, knew the reason for the murders..Wish Terry would come out from where ever he his and back these claims up.
This is just a personal opinion, based on clips I have seen and reportage I have read, but my take is that if they had been alerted to his activities and were genuinely interested in using him, one look at Manson would have told the CIA / FBI / MI6 / Mossad / KGB or whatever other intelligence agency that this was not a useful guy to be doing business with. But of course I may be wrong ... That said, there do seem to be a number of occasions where CM brushed with the law and inexplicably no action was taken .. but I guess that could just be down to him being a punk of little consequence. Jem
Sometimes these agencies aren't fussy - they trawled prisons and Manson did have the most important quality - knew how to keep his mouth shut.... unlike Susan who foiled the operation if indeed it was one.
