The Twenty-Two Disciples from Hell

Discussion in 'David Berkowitz' started by catscradle77, Dec 1, 2007.

  1. catscradle77 Administrator

    From: Satanic Crime: A Threat in the New Millennium by William H. Kennedy, Mystic Valley Media, 2006.

    Chapter Three

    Twenty-Two Disciples of Hell


    On July 29, 1976, two young women, Donna Lauria and Jody Valenti, were talking in a parked car in front of Lauria's apartment building in the Bronx, New York City. Because of the dangerous hour (1:00 a.m.) Lauria's parents stopped by the car on their way home from an evening out and told her it was time to come upstairs. Donna agreed that she would.

    Just after her mom and dad left Donna noticed a very strange looking man standing alongside the passenger side of the car. "Who is this guy?", she asked. "What does he want?" The strange man drew a pistol, squatted down, and pumped five rounds into the car. Donna expired immediately from a neck wound. Jody, shot in the leg, hit the horn while the strange man continued pumping the trigger, even though he ran out of ammo. Jody fled the car, hysterically screaming for help. Donna's father, hearing the commotion, ran down the stairs and out the front door. Wearing only pajamas and still barefoot, he sped in his car to the hospital, hoping that the doctors could save his profusely bleeding daughter, but she had already died. (1).

    The detectives assigned to the case could find no motive for the attack. There was no apparent connection between the killer and the victims. They concluded that it was a case of either a mob hit wherein the killers mistook the girls for their target or that the killer was a crackpot. Jody, still shell-shocked from the attack, managed to give a vague description of the assailant. The police had nothing to go on and failed to capture the shooter.(2).

    On October 23, 1976, almost three months after Donna Lauria's grisly murder, 22 year old Carl Denaro partied with his friends at a Queens bar. He had enlisted in the Air Force for a four year hitch and was out on the town with is childhood pals as it would be quite sometime before he would return home to New York City. Rosemary Keenan whom Denaro knew from college, came to the bar to join in the going away party. (3)

    The festivities at the popular drinking hole broke up just after 2:30 AM and Carl drove Rosemary home. The couple parked near Rosemary's house and talked. A strange man appeared out of nowhere on the passenger side of the car. he was holding a gun and rapidly discharged five shots into the car, hitting Carl in the head and then disappearing as quickly as he came. Dazed from the attack, Rosemary drove the car back to the bar and patrons rushed Carl to the hospital. Surgeons replaced a part of Denaro's shattered skull with a metal plate and his injuries would plague him for the rest of his life--destroying what could have been a successful military career. (4)

    A little over a month later, on November 26, 1976, 16 year old Donna DeMasi and her 18 year old friend Joanne Lomino were coming home from a late movie. The bus dropped the pair near Joanne's house. Joanne noticed a strange man following them. She urged her friend to speed up, and the pair was just in front of Joanne's house when the man addressed them. The stranger started to ask them directions before drawing his pistol and firing at them. The shooter then fled by foot. (5)

    Joanne's family heard the shots and screams. They emerged from their house to help the girls. At the hospital, surgeons concluded that Donna would totally recover from her wounds. The bullet had passed within a quarter inch of her spine and tumbled out of her body. Her friend Joanne was not so lucky. Her spine had been severely shattered by the bullet. The doctors determined she would live but never walk again and would be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of her life. (6)
  2. catscradle77 Administrator

    Two months later, on January 30, 1977, the killer struck again. twenty-six year old Christine Freund and her boyfriend Joel Diel left a wine bar in Queens just after midnight and strolled toward his car. The young couple was too fixated on each other to observe the strange man who had been stalking them. As the pair sat in the car, two gun blasts shattered the windshield. Both shots struck Christine in the head and John, unharmed, ran for help, trying to summon a passing car, but no one stopped to help. The shooter fled a split second after he fired the second shot. Police in nearby homes were awoken by the gunfire and had called the police. Christine died in the hospital just before dawn. (7)

    On March 8, 1977, an attractive young college student named Virginia Voskerichian was walking home from her classes in the affluent Forest Hills Gardens section of New York. From all accounts, Virginia was an industrious young woman who had fled Eastern European communism with her family in the late 1950's. As she walked toward her house, a strange man approached her from the opposite direction. When the man go close, he pulled out a .44 pistol and aimed it at her head. Virginia pathetically raised her books to shield her from the bullets, but a single shot hit her square in the face, and she keeled over dead with blood gushing from her skull onto the pavement.

    As the gunman fled he brushed up against a passerby and said, 'Hi mister." He then continued to flee. The shooter also passed a police squad car that was rushing to the scene of the disturbance. (8).

    Over a month later, the deranged killer struck again. On April 17, 1977, a young couple sat necking in their parked car near the Hutchinson River Parkway, just a short walk from where Donna Lauria had been gunned down a year earlier. Eighteen year old Valentina Surianni, who dreamed of a career in show business, sat in the car with her twenty two year old boyfriend Alexander Esau, who was employed by a tow truck company. (9).

    In the early hours of that Sunday morning, another car pulled up alongside them. Its driver produced a firearm and shot both of them twice. Valentina died immediately and Alexander expired not long after. At this juncture, the police had no clear description of the murderer. However, on this occasion the unhinged killer took the time to leave a note addressed to lead police investigator Captain Joseph Borelli. The note complained about Borrelli referring to him as a "woman hater" in the press and also contained the odd notation "I am the Monster Beelzebub" and included the moniker by which this serial killer would become known. The ruthless shooter signed the letter Son of Sam. (10).

    The killer also wrote to journalist Jimmy Breslin and included the following weird description, "Duke of Death. Wicked King Wicker. The twenty two disciples of hell. And lastly John H. Wheaties, rapist and suffocator of young girls. P.S. drive on, think positive, get off your butts, knock on coffins etc." (11)
  3. catscradle77 Administrator

    On June 26, 1977, Judy Placido turned to Sal Lupo, the young man she was talking with after leaving Elephas, a disco in Queens,a and suggested it was time for him to take her home after their night of partying. The normally packed disco was almost empty at 3:00 am. The Son of Sam killings had thinned out crowds all across the city, and the livelihood of service industry workers who were dependant on tips from customers began to get threatened. The couple climbed into Sal's car and began to chat. (12)

    "The Son of Sam is really scary," Judy told Sal. "The way that guy comes out of nowhere. You never know where he'll hit next." This turned out to be almost prophetic. Placido later recalled. "All of a sudden, I heard echoing in the car. There wasn't any pain, just ringing in my ears. I looked at Sal, and his eyes ere open wide, just like his mouth. There were no screams. I don't know why I didn't scream."

    "All the windows had been closed. I couldn't understand what this pounding noise was. After that, I felt disoriented, dazed," she recalled. (14). At first, Sal thought the car had been pelted with rocks so he ran back to the disco for help. Judy looked in the rearview mirror and discovered she was covered in blood, and her right arm was paralyzed. She fell to the ground as she bolted back to the nightclub. Sal had also been hit in the arm. The pair was extremely fortunate because Judy had been shot three times but miraculously avoided serious injury, and Sal only suffered a minor flesh wound. Son of Sam had struck again. Ironically, a New York City detective had been outside the Elephas disco just fifteen minutes before the shooting. Once the alert came over his car radio, the detective returned to the scene. Judy and Sal could not offer any information about the identity of the assailant, as they never caught a glimpse of him. (15).

    On July 31, 1977 Stacy Moskowitz, a lively young woman, sat with her attractive boyfriend, Bobby Violant, in his father's car. They had gone to the movie theater and parked in a secluded spot near Gravesend Bay in Brooklyn. "How about taking a walk in the park?" the young man had asked. 'What if the Son of Sam is hiding there?" Stacy replied. "This is Brooklyn, not Queens. Come on," he reassured her. They exited the car and strolled over to the park swings. Bobby leaned over to kiss her and she saw something. (16)

    "Someone's looking at us," Stacy muttered. Bobby saw a strange man nearby, but the stranger disappeared behind some parked cars. Stacy was concerned and wanted to go back to the car and leave, but Bobby pressed her to stay for a few minutes while they necked. (17)

    "All of a sudden," Bobby later recalled, "I heard like a humming sound. First, I thought I heard glass break. Then, I didn't hear Stacy anymore. I didn't feel anything but I saw her fall away from me. I don't know who got shot first, her or me. (18).

    Bobby Violante had been hit by two bullets in the face. Stacy received one round in the head. Bobby could hear Stacy's moaning. he leaned on the car's horn and then pulled himself from the car and screamed for his life. (19)

    When the police arrived, Stacy and Bobby were quickly sent on their way to Coney Island Hospital. Stacy's parents arrived at the hospital just to find out their beloved daughter was to be moved to a better hospital that specialized in head trauma.

    Together, the parents of the young couple helplessly waited for hours as surgeons worked to save their children. A day later, Stacy died and Bobby Violante survived, but he had lost his left eye and had only 20% vision in his right eye. He was more or less blinded by the attack (20).
  4. catscradle77 Administrator

    A major development occurred a couple of days after the Moskowitz-Violante shooting. Mrs. Cacilia Davis, a middle-aged Austrian woman, came forward with the claim that she had seen the man who shot the couple. Detective Joe Strano of the NYPD went to see her at her home on Bay 17th Street, only a block away from the scene of the fatal shooting. Davis told Strano that she had to walk her dog Snowball in the wee hours of the morning of the killing. She suspected a man was following her. "He looked like he was trying to hide behind a tree. But the tree was too small, too narrow. He stood out. He kept staring in my direction. Then he began walking in my direction, smiling, a peculiar smile. It wasn't anything sinister, just a friendly kind of smile, almost." (21)

    When Davis got a closer look at the stranger, she thought she saw a gun concealed in his coat. "I was frightened. I walked into my house and began to slip off Snowball's collar. Just then I heard pops, or something that sounded like firecrackers. They were kind of loud, but far off. I didn't think too much of it at the time. " (22)

    "The next morning...there were crowds of people at Shore Road. It was then that I learned what happened the night before. Suddenly, I realized I must have seen the killer. I panicked, and I couldn't say anything...I would never forget his face until the day I die. It was frightening." she stated. (23)

    Another major development occur ed when the police were contacted by property owner Sam Carr, who came by to complain about how his dogs had been shot to death in his yard by a neighbor. HE also told police that this tenant had written him some unhinged letters that were incoherent and somewhat similar to the letters sent by the Son of Sam killer. The police detectives checked to see if any parking violations occurred in the vicinity of the last murders and formed a short list of ticketed car owners. One of the issued tickets corresponded to the name of the same person Sam Carr had accused of shooting his dogs. A reported arson offense also yielded the same man's name. (24)

    The police put the suspect under surveillance on August 8, 1977 and approached him as he exited his apartment. The suspect was carrying a paper bag. The man was heavy set with dark hair and he strolled toward his Ford Galaxy. The police waited for the man to get into the car to make sure it was the owner of the ticketed car and waited until he put the paper bag on the passenger seat. "Let's go!" a detective ordered, and the officers surrounded the car. The suspect did not see the approaching figures. A detective came from the rear of the car and pressed the barrel of his police revolver against the man's head. "Freeze!" he yelled. "Police!". (23)

    The man inside the car turned around and smiled moronically at the police detail. The detectives gave him very explicit instructions to slowly get out of the car and put his hands up on the roof. The man quickly obeyed still wearing his disturbed smile. (26).

    "Now, that I've got you," the detective barked, "who have I got?"

    "You know, " the man said politely.

    "No, I don't. You tell me".

    Still smiling his weird smile, he answered. "I'm Sam, David Berkowitz." (27)
  5. catscradle77 Administrator

    Finding the Devil

    (Richard) David Falco Berkowitz was born June 1, 1953 and takes his last name from the family who adopted him. Berkowitz described having a lonely childhood in which he constantly struggled with the fact that he was adopted and not wanted by his birth mother. He also mentioned deep-rooted psychological problems that he experienced as a child:


    "Ever since I was a small child, my life seemed to be filled with torment. I would often have seizures in which I would roll on the floor. Sometimes furniture would get knocked over. When these attacks came, it felt as if something was entering me.

    My mother, who has long since passed away, had no control over me. I was like a wild and destructive animal. My father had to pin me to the floor until these attacks stopped.

    When I was in public school, I was so violent and disruptive that a teacher, who had become so angry at me, grabbed me in a headlock and threw me out of his classroom.

    I was getting into a lot of fights, too. Sometimes I started screaming for no reason at all. My parents were then ordered by school officials to take me to a child psychologist or else I would be expelled. I had to go to this psychologist once per week for two years. Yet therapy seesions had no affect on my behavior.

    During this period of my life I was also plagued with bouts of severe depression. When this feeling came over me, I would hide under my bed for hours. I would also lock myself in a closet and sit in total darkness from morning until afternoon. I had a craving for the darkness and I felt an urge to flee away from people". (28)

    Berkowitz claimed he suffered from great mental disorders and behavioral difficulties which would haunt him for the rest of his life. His tumultuous actions were accented by tantrums and wild acting out. David Berkowitz also claims something much more nefarious was entering his life.

    "Occasionally, this same evil force would come upon me in the middle of the night. When this would happen I felt an urge to sneak out of the house and wander the dark streets. I roamed the neighborhood like an alley cat can would creep back into the house by climbing the fire escapes. My parents would never know that I was gone.

    I continually worried and frightened my parents because I behaved so strangely. At times I would go the entire day without talking to them. I would stay in my room talking to myself. My parents could not reach me, not even with all of their love. Many times, I saw them break down and cry because they saw that I was such a tormented person." (29)

    The future serial killer began setting fires and causing all sorts of problems. He began drinking heavily and running with the wrong crowd. Pyromania and pornography became a huge part of Berkowitz's teenage years. Never feeling that he fit in, young David sought solace in the very dark regions of the human mind. The morose state did not go unnoticed by his parents as Berkowitz later mentioned:

    "Thoughts of suicide often came into my mind. Sometimes I spent time sitting on a window ledge with my legs dangling over the side. We lived on the 6th floor of an old apartment building. When my dad saw me doing this he would yell at me to get back inside.

    I also felt powerful urges to step in front of moving cars or throw myself in front of subway trains. At times those urges were so strong that my body actually trembled. I remember that it was a tremendous struggle for me to hold my sanity.

    I had no idea what to do and neither did my parents. They had me talk to a rabbi, teachers and school counselors, but nothing worked." (30)
  6. catscradle77 Administrator

    Like many disturbed adolescents, Berkowitz fought off suicidal thoughts and a cruel blow struck him when he was just fourteen:

    "When I was fourteen my mother was stricken with cancer and withing several months she was dead. I had no other brothers or sisters and so it was just me and my dad. He had to work ten hours per day, six days a week. So we spent very little time together.

    For the most part, my mother was my source of stability. With her now gone, however, my life quickly went downhill. I was filled with anger at the loss of my mom. I felt hopeless and my periods of depression were more intense than ever. I also became even more rebellious and began to cut out of school.

    Yet my Dad tried to help as best as he could. He managed to push me through high school." (31)

    Despite his depressive and suicidal tendencies, Berkowitz was allowed to join the US Army after finishing high school. He served for three years with honor and was stationed in Korea guarding the demilitarized zone. Military life proved boring and Berkowitz would up disenchanted with the army. He sought the battlefields of Vietnam and the action it would bring, but the army had other ideas. The armed service proved a great disappointment to the young man, and his duties turned out to be quite dull. When his time of service was up, Berkowitz returned to his native New York, enrolled in junior college, and took a job as a low-wage security guard. (32).

    In his desire to adjust and fit into society, Berkowitz began to socialize with a group of students who were involved in the occult:

    "I got out of the service in 1974 to start life again as a civilian. All my friend that I knew before had either married or moved away. So I found myself alone and living in New York City.

    In 1975, however, I met some guys at a party who were, I later found out, heavily involved in the occult. I had always been fascinated with witchcraft, Satanism, and the occult things since I was a child. When I was growing up, I watched countless horror and satanic movies, one of which was Rosemary's Baby. That movie in particular totally captivated my mind.

    Now I was age 22 and this evil force was still reaching out to me. Everywhere I went there seemed to be a sign or a symbol pointing me to Satan. I felt as if something were trying to take control of my life. I began to read the Satanic Bible by the lat Anton LaVey who founded the Church of Satan in San Francisco in 1966. I began, innocently, to practice various occult rituals and incantations.

    I am utterly convinced that something satanic had entered into my mind and that, looking back at all that happened, I realize that I had been slowly deceived. I did not know that bad things were going to result from all this. Yet over the months, the things that were wicked to no longer seemed to be such. I was headed down the road to destruction and I did not know it. Maybe I was at a point where I just didn't care anymore." (33)
  7. catscradle77 Administrator

    The Children of the Process

    According to Maury Terry in his book, The Ultimate Evil (2004), David Berkowitz was actually getting involved with a spin-off of the Process Church of the Final Judgement. As mentioned, the Process Church was formed in the mid-1960's by Robert and Mary Anne Moore DeGrimston. Their belief system focused on the conviction that Jesus and Satan were different aspects of the same deity. The DeGrimston's theology centered on the coming End Times and the need to identify with God and Lucifer and, in this regard, they constitute a diabolical religion. The cult grew and recruited young, wealthy people who could contribute vast resources to the organization and young wayward youth who could be manipulated into serving the organization unconditionally. Branches of the Process Church could be found in every major city in the North America and in Europe. In 1975, a little over ten years after its founding, the De Grimstons disbanded the Church and destroyed all of its records. The rift allegedly came because the couple suffered from sexual problems.

    Maury Terry theorized that the Process Church splintered into carious sects and went underground and continued to practice this odd faith and recruit new members. One of these offshoots was know as the Children, and it was they who recruited the young satanist David Berkowitz. In 1997, Berkowitz himself acknowledged that he was part of this Process Church spin-off group and that he was not the only shooter in the rampage of death which left six people dead and many others permanently disabled. This revelation came as a bombshell to the hordes of skeptics who originally disavowed Terry's central thesis that Berkowitz did not act alone.

    Next: Evidence of Multiple Shooters
  8. catscradle77 Administrator

    Evidence of Multiple Shooters

    Right after Berkowitz's arrest there were suspicions as to whether he was a lone shooter. His initial claim that his neighbor's dog ordered him to murder people randomly made the young man seem to be a mental case plain and simple. However, the eyewitness testimonies from the various murders describe the shooter as looking nothing like David Berkowitz. Berkowitz immediately confessed to all of the shootings just after his arrest and also took responsibility for the Satanic letters. Eventually, he was sentenced to six consecutive life terms. He is currently housed at the Sullivan Correctional Facility in upstate New York and expects to spend the rest of his life in jail. he was nearly murdered by another inmate in 1979 when Berkowitz had his throat slit after a petty dispute. David's behavior was so unruly when he started his sentence he was nicknamed Beserk-o-witz. Despite the 365 years in prison it earned him, Berkowitz continued to practice black magic in prison and threatened to hex and curse guards, social workers , correctional staff and other inmates. (34)

    Berkowitz's life took a dramatic change when he converted to Christianity and renounced his former association with the occult. He became a born-again Christian and many in the Evangelical community consider his experience to be a legitimate path to conversion. In his effort to spread the gospel, Berkowitz has set up a web page where he shares the story of his move from venerating the Devil to becoming a Christ-centered Christian. As part of his penance, David Berkowitz does not actively seek release from prison and refused to attend his parole hearings, which automatically come up by law every few years. (35).

    Despite his initial confession to all of the crimes, there is a mounting proof that he was not the only killer involved in the shootings.

    One of the letters berkowitz sent to the police contained reference to other individuals who were involved in the crime. Several years after his arrest, Berkowitz openly accused other persons of involvement in a Satanic groups which operated near his former Yonkers apartment and who participated in the murders. Among them were two brothers, John and Michael Carr, relatives of Sam Carr, his landlord. John's nickname was "Wheaties"--a name used in one of the Son of Sam letters. Two other Devil worshippers--referred to as the :Joker" and the 'Duke of Death"--live nearby. There was also the mention in one letter of the "22 Disciples of Hell", which could imply the actual number of members who were involved in the shooting or could be the name of a coven. (36).

    None of the individuals accused by David Berkowitz were ever charged with any crime. Nevertheless, several fled before the authorities could question them. Berkowitz has confessed to attempting to bolster his insanity defense in the weeks after his arrest by concocting the whole dog story. Although such an attempt would automatically raise issues of future credibility, certain facts do suggest a cabal behind the Son of Sam murders. (37)

    One supporting piece of evidence of multiple shooters centers on the untimely deaths of the Carr brothers withing two years of Berkowitz's arrest. john Carr was found shot in the face in February 1978 with the number 666 allegedly found carved into the 31 year old Carr's hand, and the death was deemed a suicide. Despite having a medically documented allergy to alcohol, 27 year old Michael Carr perished is a drunk driving accident on October 4, 1979. Andrew Dupay, a 33 year old postman who both lived and worked in Berkowitz-Carr area for years was found dead of an apparent suicide. In the note he left, Dupay stated his life had been threatened on more than one occasion. Perhaps the postal worker stumbled onto Berkowitz's cult and knew too much. (38)

    more to follow
  9. catscradle77 Administrator

    Some further evidence demonstrates there was a Satanic cult in operation in the same area that Berkowitz claims. The Children were recruiting. Even twenty-five years after the Summer of Sam, the Satanic activity in this area has become local lore. The physical characteristics of Untermeyer Park, near where Berkowitz lived, in particular made it a perfect location for conducting covert ceremonies within its thick wooded surroundings.

    Furthermore, the area to this day is marked by Satanic graffiti-some of it decades old and others only recently applied. With the rise of Hispanics in the neighborhood, the remains of Santeria animal sacrifices have also been discovered in the park. (39)

    Former employees of nearby St. John's Hospital to this day can recall nights when chanting and torch flames were seen and heard coming from the section of Untermeyer Park where Berkowitz claimed Luciferian rites were performed. Some locals maintain that harmless teenagers were the only ones frequenting the backwoods of the park during the Son of Sam killings. On closer examination, however, some other disturbing evidence has come to light, which further proves the existence of a dangerous coven. In 1976, some butchered Alsatian dogs, with their ears carefully removed, were found just south of Untermeyer Park. Three years later, a Westchester County Police Officer happened upon a group of robed and hooded figures carrying torches and leading two leashed Alsatians. (40).

    Similar dog killings were reported elsewhere in the area at the time. In Walden, New York, 85 Alsatians were found skinned between October 1976 and October 1977. Across the state line, in fairfield County, Connecticut, an employee at a local radio station reported seeing Druid-like ceremonies in a secluded area near his home. (41).

    The fact that dogs were killed brings up a very strange update on the whole Son of Sam case. After she left her husband in 1975, Mary Anne DeGrimston started the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary, which is the nation's largest non-kill animal shelter. Startling accusations of animal abuse were reported by a former worker of Best Friends, who claims the organization actually abuses animals. The primary movers of Best Friends were the former members of the Process Church of the Final Judgement. This state of affairs makes one question the actual reason for the existence of this "animal rights organization". (42)

    In a 2002 interview, Maury Terry insists that Berkowitz did not act alone and was merely a player in a larger game of orchestrated Satanic murder:

    "Absolutely..In my opinion, the evidence is overwhelming and conclusive. I conducted a televised interview with David Berkowitz back in the 1990's. He claimed to have pulled the trigger for only two of the Son of Sam attacks, and publicly named John and Michael Carr as two of the other Son of Sam shooters. Even the New York City police eventually conceded the likelihood of multiple gunmen. Furthermore, if you compare the Lomino/DeMasi police composites with a photo of John Carr, the resemblance is striking. (43)
  10. Whitehorses Moderator

    The dog killings aspect does tie in with some of what Ed Sanders claims about Family activities.
    I would really like to know how much of it is true in both cases.
  11. Coroner In Law New Member

    Maury Terry probably wouldn't know a satanist from satirist!  His book is rubbish and not well written rubbish.
    The Process leaders always had dogs, Alsatians, with them everywhere. They revered the dogs and their care of the dogs was excellent.
    There is no evidence of any kind of sacrifice involved in their worship. Even after the breakup of the DeGrimston's marriage, the various remaining Process groups adhered to the original precepts.
    The portion that became the Foundation Church and later began the Best Friends shelter were just a slightly off the center of mainstream Christianity.
    Both groups were, as the original Process, strongly anti-vivisectionist. The morphing of the Foundation to Best Friends has been rewarding to them spiritually but not financially(see doc in Process board on Best Friends salaries).
    Mary Ann DeGrimston was not a co-founder of Best Friends but she did live with them and after many years re-married to one of the co-founders, Gabriel DePeyer.
  12. Whitehorses Moderator

    Don't hold back Coroner, tell me how you really feel.  ;D
  13. Whitehorses Moderator

    Wasn't it a couple of Alsatians that chased Polanski into a garage?
  14. Coroner In Law New Member

    [quote author=whitehorses link=topic=2123.msg28601#msg28601 date=1228193489]
    Wasn't it a couple of Alsatians that chased Polanski into a garage?
    [/quote]
    I don't but it is understandable ;D
  15. Shuffler New Member

    While I agree that Maury Terry isn't much of a writer, there is way too much evidence in his favor. Most surviving victims or family of victims agree that there was much more going on than a deranged lunatic that killed for a barking dog.....
  16. freebird Donating Members

    I agree Shuffler, there is just to much "coincidental" evidence. I don't believe in coincidence myself. I read the book years ago when it first came out and there was reference made to someone called "Manson 2". Supposedly this person was associated pretty closely with Manson before the group was arrested for TLB. I have always wondered who this person might have been.
  17. TooLate Active Member

    Berkowitz was interviewed by Police re this per Wiki but they decided it was nonsense. I sniffed round his site last night and what I saw was a still disordered person trying hard to hang on to reality using christianity as the life jacket.

    Two things jumped out telling me his hold on reality is tenuous and fragile at best, and that he is far from reliable, as he indulges in a lot of fantasy as well as having floating and fixed delusions. Interesting that christian thought now seems to harness his delusions or hekp him deal and provide some touchstones to keep him a bit grounded, just slightly.

    First sign alls a bit fragile - he felt it necessary to issue an extended statement denying the media rumours he is gay - and perceived the source of these rumours as the devil trying to swing him back to "the dark side". What do you get when you go mixing paranoid schizophrenia with bible bashing - :witsend: Homophobia?

    Second, a main reason for my visit was intrigue with the story of command hallucinations emanating from a dog. In all my years working with schizy killers I never heard a storyquite that bizarre so I was doubting it. And what did I find on Sons website? Good cause. On one page a new story - it was the "demon" Samhain of Halloween whose orders he was actually taking or whom influenced his behaviour... not a dog (funny how bible bashing might alter your story toward christian world views / explanations).
    Hmmm, I look up Samhain and find it is not even a pagan deity but rather is the change of seasons at which time the ancients felt more remembrance of their dead, versus another festival which in tune with Spring celebrated rebirth. Nothing sinister in this, but this is what schizos do; take a bit of reality then wrap it in delusions.

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