First, a word of greeting. I've been a student of this case for ~32 years, and I've been lurking around these parts for ~7 months. Thought I'd finally speak up. In Helter Skelter, Bugliosi is critical of the first responders for "obliterating" the bloody thumb print on the gate control button, but nobody seems to have asked, How did Winifred Chapman get out after her horrific discovery? She would have had to push that button, so it's highly likely that SHE obliterated the print, rather than the police. Thoughts?
Great observation Goona, what took you so long to post? Keep posting, I'm sure you have something of value to share. Freebird ps. welcome to the group
Welcome Goona. Your question sparked me to go thru the testimony of Chapman to see if it is mentioned how she got in and out. Between getting Linda Kasabian's up, I will work on getting the rest of Chapman's up to see if that question is answered.
:hi: Welcome. To quote Ace Ventura, "Good question, Acquado!" (spelling??) Maybe she opened the gate when she came in and it stayed opened, so she didn't have to push the button to open it back up. Just a thought.
I was reading some testimony, think it was Garretson's. He stated that the gate closed on it's own after 15 to 20 seconds.
When I was up there in '92 and saw Trent drive thru the gate it closed on it's own. I would agree with Christine it took about 20 seconds or so.
If the gate mechanism had been set to keep the gate open until someone actually closed it, Chapman would have arrived to find the gate open, the morning after the murders. Unless Garretson closed the gate after the killers left, of course.
Just listened to that part again , it states " because of the wires haging over the gate Mrs Chapman thought the power might be out and was surprised when she pressed the button and the gate opened" it however dosent mention her pressing the bloodstained button to get back out when she ran for help, hmmm.
Yeah and the paper boy noticed the wires too! Maybe Winnie vaulted over the gate? LOL I discussed this quite a few years back on KTS. We never did really come up with an answer. It's something Bugliosi wrote down and didn't think much about I guess?
Cooltide, if the book mentioned Chapman having pressed that button to get out, Bugliosi couldn't have foolishly gone on and on over the police officer doing it. Not being a very big fan of blood, I likely would have run right through that gate. It would be like the cartoons, when you see the outline of someone who has run through a fence or a door.
Yes, you are right. Now that one sees it, it sure looks like a lot of telephone lines for just one house. Not being educated in phone lines, did phone companies back then use a line per phone in the house-example if there was 4 phones, 4 lines were hooked up outside? And another thing. Since Charles and Charles were up there a couple of times, how did they know about where the phones lines might be? Did they do recon on the house shortly before the murders? Is that where the mysterious dune buggies come in that were heard going up and down streets? Now that I think about it, it sounds like there might of been a whole lot more premediation if Tex knew exactly where the telephone wires were. More questions.
BB , thats what I was thinking too , is it one line per phone in house. If not and the lines are for other houses I have never heard any of the neighbours sayin there phone line was out too. Nowadays I' m pretty sure its one line per phone number and extensions throughout the rest of house (in UK anyway ). If you require a different number in same house that would be an extra cable. Did Cielo Dv have more than one phone number?
My take on the phone lines is that there are 2 lines going to the telegraph pole as it approaches the property then the 2 lines split into 4 just before they connect with the pole making 4 connections at the pole then as they leave the pole they split back to the original 2 lines...sort of making a diamond shape as the lines connect to the telegraph pole.The 2 lines would then serve the house and the guest house.Looking at the photos of the jumbled mess of wires you can see some of the lines do look like they split.Also looking at photos of the telegraph pole the top does look like it was made to serve 4 connections...If my theory's wrong it would probably have to be 4 lines going into the house but how do you explain the photos of the lines splitting.
It looks like one of the lines goes to the gate. In the upper left corner there is a box (?) attached to the gate with a wire connected to it? What would that be for? If it was electrical the gate wouldn't have been operable. If it is a phone line why would it be connected to the gate instead of a speaker by the button? FB
I dont think the Winiferd even looked at the gate control button she just pressed it out of habit, If she noticed the blood on the button she would have not been as hysterical as made out to be in the book. I think she was in such a panic to get help she missed Steven in his car and the bloody print on said button. The Police officer who late pressed the button should have known better with what training he had. although his training could raise even more questions. Vince
There were phone lines leading to the main house and the guest house. There would also have been a call box at the gate, so visitors could identify themselves, in order to be allowed onto the property. In so large a municipal community as L.A., I imagine at least the main house might have had cable television service. Altobelli might have had the same service in the guest house. So it's not so surprising to see a lot of cut lines. What a pity Watson didn't goof and cut the power lines, aye? Vince, I agree with you and I am certainly not suggesting Chapman should be held to blame for destroying forensic evidence.
