Oh well peoplle can take offense if they want - its a free world. My view of the guts of the conversation is it went like this. Others - most people or people like me couldn't do Manson type killings Me - many more than you think could do those types of killings can eg soldiers Others - don't call soldiers sociopaths Me - I didn't Others - some soldiers are sociopaths Perhaps Americans are just a tad sensitive to perceived criticism of the military in this day and age? I need to remember this forum is full of 'em! Guarantee you this sort of conversation could occur in my country with noone upset by it. To reply to Dilligaff I've counseled only a few soldiers usually due to their suicidality from ww2 and vietnam, but too many murderers to recall. I'd rather not get into discussing any differences by war at length. The content and nature of their psychic trauma (and many of the murderers too) was more or less equivalent. Its pretty trite to say it but the Vietnam guys felt less appreciated (ww2s were given houses / warm welcomes), and Vietnams still struggle here today for compo, for the fact many of their children had major birth defects and are highly care dependent. My grand father was not ashamed of his service, just thought any pride at participation in such an ugly affair as war is a bit misplaced. It had to be done but take no joy in it was more the jist. I mean isn't the whole point of war ironically meant to be to create safety and peace. If you're someone who believes that you are going to go through some serious cogniitive dissonance when called upon to kill. Like it or not it will cause pain to many that you kill. It is not sterile or surgical or humane on the battlefield. Bottled brunettes post tells it like it is. Just sad.