These are pretty scary lie detector tests for a church.. Think what they know about you if you ever decided to leave. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "We are about to begin a Security Check. We are not moralists. We are able to change people. We are not here to condemn them. while we cannot guarantee you that matters revealed in this check will be held forever secret, we can promise you faithfully that no part of nor any answer you make here will be given to the police or state. No Scientologist will ever bear witness against you in Court by reason of answers to this Security Check. This Security Check is exclusively for Scientology purposes. The only ways you can fail this Security Check is to refuse to take the test, to fail to answer its questions truthfully or if you are here knowingly to injure Scientology. The only penalty attached to failure of this check is processing or our refusal to employ you or issue you a certificate, and this will only happen if we find that you trying knowingly to injure Scientology. You can pass this test by (1) agreeing to take it, (2) answering each question truthfully and (3) by not being a member of a subversive group seeking to injure Scientology. The first questions are null questions to determine your reaction pattern.
Are you sitting on a chair? Are you on the moon? Are all cats black? Am I an ostrich? Is this Earth? Have you ever drunk water? Are you holding up a tree? Am I an elephant? Are you a table? Is this a Security Check? ... Have you ever lived or worked under an assumed name? Have you given me your right name? Are you here for a different purpose than you say? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever done any shoplifting? Have you ever forged a signature, cheque, or document? Have you ever blackmailed anybody? Have you ever been blackmailed? Have you ever cheated? Have you ever smuggled anything? Have you ever entered a country illegally? Have you ever been in prison? Have you ever tried to act normal? Have you ever indulged in drunkenness? Have you ever done any reckless driving? Have you ever hit and run with a car? Have you ever burglared any place? Are you guilty of anything? Have you ever embezzled money? Do you have a secret you are afraid I'll find out? Have you ever assaulted anyone? Have you ever practised cannibalism? Have you ever been in jail? Have you ever told lies in Court? Have you ever been Court Martialed? Have you ever deserted from a military service? Have you ever illegally prevented conscription? Have you ever been a mutineer? Have you ever had anything to do with pornography? Have you ever committed arson? Have you ever been a drug addict? Have you ever made anyone into a drug addict? Have you ever peddled dope? Have you ever PDH'd anyone? Have you had any dealings with stolen goods? Have you ever divulged government secrets for pay or political reasons? Do you have a police record? Have you ever raped anyone or been raped? Have you ever been involved in an abortion? Have you ever committed adultery? Have you ever committed bigamy? Have you ever practised homosexuality? Have you ever practised or assisted intercourse between women? Have you ever had intercourse with a member of your family? Have you ever been sexually unfaithful? Have you ever practiced sex with animals? Have you ever publicly exhibited yourself sexually? Have you ever hidden to watch sexual practices? Have you ever practised sodomy? Have you ever consistently made a practice of sex with a member of your own sex? Have you ever slept with a member of a race of another color? Have you ever committed culpable homicide? Have you ever committed a justifiable crime? Have you ever bombed anything? Have you ever murdered anyone? Have you ever hidden a body? Have you ever attempted suicide? Have you ever kidnapped anyone? Have you ever done any illicit diamond buying? Have you ever acted as an informer? Have you ever betrayed anyone for money? Have you ever betrayed a trust? Have you ever betrayed an employer's trust? Have you ever speculated with somebody else's funds? Have you ever knowingly implicated an innocent person? Have you ever withheld a communication concerning a crime or misdemeanor committed by another? Have you ever threatened anyone with a firearm? Have you ever been in illegal possession of firearms? Are my questions embarrassing? Have you ever been paid for giving evidence? Have you ever acted as an informer? Have you ever injured somebody's reputation by knowingly spreading lies? Have you ever injured somebody by spading tales you knew were true? Have you ever destroyed something belonging to someone else? Have you ever plotted to destroy a member of your family? Have you ever had a member of your family in an insane asylum? Have you ever been pronounced insane? Have you ever been a spy for an organization? Have you ever looted any place? Have you ever stolen from the armed forces? Have you ever conspired with anyone? Have you ever had anything to do with Communism or been a Communist? Have you practised fraud? Have you ever been a newspaper reporter? Are you hiding anything? Have you ever had intercourse after placing another under alcohol or drugs? Have you ever used hypnotism to procure sex or money? Do you collect sexual objects? Have you ever ill-treated children? Have you ever practised sex with children? Have you ever practised masturbation? Have you ever taken money for giving anyone sexual intercourse? Have you ever sexually coerced a servant? Do you have any bastards? Are you withholding anything? Have you ever had any connection with a brothel? Have you ever coerced anyone into giving you sex? Have you had anything to do with a baby farm? Have you ever killed or crippled animals for pleasure? Have you ever crippled a person? Have you ever been a spy for the police? Have you ever pretended a disability? Are you afraid of the police? Have you ever committed a misdemeanor? Have you ever committed a felony? Have you ever committed a capital offense? Have you ever done anything you are afraid the police may find out? Have you ever falsified the books in any firm you worked for? Have you ever criminally avoided taxes? Have you ever counterfeited money? Have you ever fraudulently altered or issued certificates or documents? Have you ever obtained money under false pretences? Have you ever done anything your mother would be ashamed to find out? How could you help yourself generally? What represents yourself? How could you help your family? What represents your family? How do you feel about sex? What represents (the Org (others (a group to you? How could you help (the Org? (others? (a group? How could you help mankind? Have you ever controlled people? How do you feel about being controlled? What is Communism? Do you feel Communism has some good points? Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or any associated group? Have you ever been a member of any group with similar ideals as the Communist Party? Do you know any Communists personally? Have you ever injured Dianetics or Scientology? Have you committed any overts on a Scientology Organization? Have you wronged anyone in a Scientology Organization? Have you ever stolen anything from a Scientology Organization? Do you have anything in your possession that you shouldn't have? Do you have any overts on L. Ron Hubbard? Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard? Do you have any overts on Mary Sue Hubbard? Have you done bad things to leaders in Scientology or Scientology orgs? Have you withheld anything from executives in Scientology? Have you sought to get any staff member dismissed? Have you knowingly planned not to do your job? Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Mary Sue Hubbard? Have you ever injured any Scientologist? Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Scientologists? Have you ever betrayed Scientology? Do you know of any secret plans against Scientology? Do you plan to steal a Scientology Organization? Have you ever taken money to injure Scientology? Do you deserve to be helped by Scientology? Have you ever used Dianetics or Scientology to force sex upon anyone? Have you ever falsified a claim for money to be repaid to you or to be paid you? Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientology Organization? Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientologist? Are you upset about this Security Check? What question in this check shouldn't I ask you again? Have you withheld from answering anything because it might injure someone? What unkind thoughts have you thought while I have been doing this check? Have any of your answers here been designed to injure another? Are you upset about this Security Check?
Security check for Students Are you coming on this course in order to get away from someone or something? Are you here to get into something? to find out whether Scientology works? to prove that Scientology can't help you? Are you coming on this course with the intention of killing off your body? with the intention of spinning? or going insane? Are you presently taking tranquilizers? drugs? or medication of any sort? Have you had sex with any other student? a staff member? Are you trying to get another student to have sex with you? or a staff member? Have you coughed or distracted others during a lecture? Have you criticised this course, or the organization, verbally or in writing to non-Scientologists? Have you been thinking unkind or critical, thoughts about your preclear? L. Ron Hubbard? your instructor? your auditor? other students? staff members? Are you in disagreement with any of the stable data of Scientology? Have you secretly violated any course rule, or regulation? passes on restricted data of Scientology to unauthorized persons? tried to give Scientology a bad name? Are you making any Scientologist guilty of anything? Have you done anything that would discredit Ron or Mary Sue Hubbard, or your instructors, by reason of their having trained you? Is there anything that L. Ron Hubbard, or your instructors should mistrust you for that you haven't told them about? Are you in communication with someone who understands more about Scientology than L. Ron Hubbard? Is anyone hostile to Scientology assisting you financially on this course? Is anyone here counting on you to keep a secret for him? Have you any feeling of "injured innocence" at having been asked these questions? Have you been critical of the data or quality of the tapes? Have you ever written and then destroyed critical messages addressed to L. Ron Hubbard? How do you feel about these questions?
Children's Security Check (Ages 6-12) What has somebody told you not to tell? Have you ever decided you did not like some member of your family? Have you ever taken something belonging to somebody else and never given it back? Have you ever pretended to be sick (ill)? Have you ever made yourself sick (ill), or hurt yourself to make somebody sorry? Have you even wanted something every much, but never told anybody about it? Have you ever gotten yourself dirty on purpose? Have you ever refused to eat just to worry someone? Have you ever remembered something about yourself and not told anybody, because you thought they wouldn't believe you, or be angry at you? Have you ever refused to obey an order from someone you should obey? Have you ever told another child something that wasn't true, just to frighten or upset him? Have you ever bullied a smaller child? Have you ever deliberately got another child, or a grown-up, into trouble? Have you ever pestered grown people, who were trying to work? Have you ever been mean, or cruel, to an animal, bird or fish? Have you ever forgotten to give food or water to a pet entrusted to your care? Have you ever broken something belonging to someone else? Have you ever deliberately spoiled clothing of yours because you didn't like it? Do you have a secret? Have you ever noticed something wrong with your body that you were afraid to tell anybody about? Have you ever done anything you were very much ashamed of? Is there anything about you your parents could not understand, even if you told them? Have you ever failed to finish your schoolwork on time? Have you ever flunked an examination at school? Have you ever deliberately given a teacher trouble? Have you ever tried to make others dislike some teacher? Have you ever tried to make another child unpopular? Have you ever broken, damaged, or taken, any school property? Have you ever lied to a teacher? Have you ever been late to school, or late to a class? Have you ever stayed away from school, when you could have gone?? Have you ever cheated by copying someone else's work, taking notes into an examination, or looking up answers in a book when you weren't supposed to? Have you ever spoiled things for somebody? Who have you made guilty? Have you ever done something you shouldn't when you were supposed to be in bed or asleep? Have you ever told others bad stories about someone? Have you ever tried to make others believe that your parents, or teachers, were cruel to you? Have you ever offered as an excuse for something you have done wrong that you are only a child, or that you haven't grown up yet? Have you ever felt that your parents and home were too good for you? Have you ever felt that your parents and home weren't good enough for you? Is there anything you should tell your parents, and never have? Have you ever done anything to some else's body that you shouldn't have? Have you ever told anyone that you did something, when you hadn't really done it? Have you ever told anyone that you hadn't done something which you really had done? Have you ever ganged up on another child and made fun of him because he was different from the rest of you? Have you ever made fun of another because of the way he looked? Have you ever decided never to talk to someone again? Have you ever made your parents or teachers work harder than they should? Have you ever decided that you were too bright, or too smart for the other kids? Have you ever annoyed an adult by something you did or said? Have you ever hurt a child? Have you ever mae a child cry? Have you ever made a child sulk? Have you ever kept another child from having something that really belonged to him? Have you ever found anything and failed to return it to its owner? Have you ever told stories about someone behind their back? Have you ever lied to escape blame? Have you ever not told the whole truth about something so as to protect someone? Have you ever felt ashamed of your parents? Have you ever disappointed your parents? Have you ever run away when you should have stayed? Have you ever felt sure your parents wouldn't understand something that had happened in school, so you didn't tell them? Have you ever not told teachers something about your family because they wouldn't understand it? Have you ever failed to keep another child's secret? Have you ever felt it was just no use talking to someone? Have you ever hurt someone you didn't mean to? Have you ever been sloppy about your clothes or possessions? Have you ever cried when you shouldn't have? Have you ever been a coward? Have you ever made too much fuss over a little hurt? Have you ever tried to make your parents believe you were doing better in school than you were? Have you ever told on anyone? Have you ever teased younger children? Have you ever mae a mess and not helped to clean it up? Have you ever broken or damaged something and never told anybody it was you who did it? Have you ever let someone else get punished for something you did? Have you ever cried till you got your own way? Have you ever decided "Someday, when I'm grown up, I'll get even"? If so, with whom? Have you ever picked on someone smaller than yourself? Have you ever upset anyone by throwing a temper tantrum? Have you ever hurt anyone by telling them you didn't love them any more? Have you ever made out that you were more badly damaged than you were in order to make someone stop picking on you? Have you ever pretended to like someone that you didn't like in order to satisfy your parents?
Good God, so they find every weak spot you could possibly have, and then beat you down for it. Scary stuff.
I wouldn't be comfortable answering these questions. So, if this is a requirement, I would not fit with this group. However, I do feel that Scientology has been attacked very heavily by the media and I am not sure if this is fair. I guess that determining if a cult is dangerous is very subjective. The People's Temple was certainly dangerous. But they seemed to flourish unnoticed. On the other hand, though the Davidians were odd I am not sure that they were dangerous.
It seems like all organizations can be dangerous on a personal level. But then it is a slippery slope. Do we want the government determining which organizations are safe?
I don't think I would like the government deciding what organizations are safe. They have their hands in enough already-and nothing against our fine government. (We are the land that everyone tried to take and model, and have the power etc.) But when it comes down to deciding what church if any I want to go to, or what charity group etc I give my money to, I think those things like choice of organization should be left up to the person joining.
[quote author=catscradle77 link=topic=1100.msg3189#msg3189 date=1178749604] I don't think I would like the government deciding what organizations are safe. They have their hands in enough already-and nothing against our fine government. (We are the land that everyone tried to take and model, and have the power etc.) But when it comes down to deciding what church if any I want to go to, or what charity group etc I give my money to, I think those things like choice of organization should be left up to the person joining. [/quote] I agree. It is called personal responsibility.
[quote author=YepYep link=topic=1100.msg3186#msg3186 date=1178741936] Yes it's very hard to say whether cults are a good or a bad thing. When people end up dying en masse that'd be a bad thing of course, but sometimes you also see lots of good things happening in cults. The People's Temple had a kind of a mini social security system that helped loads of people, mostly poor people who had no money to properly insure themselves. In that area Jim Jones did more for those people than the politicians in Sacramento IMHO. Scientology is weird but that doesn't necessarily mean it's all bad. But why they're asking these questions other than blackmail? I believe 'confessionals' are a must in every cult and I'm not feeling very comfortable about that. However, in Christianity it's also common to confess your sins to a priest so I guess they'll say it's the same kinda thing? (I find heavy holier than thou Christians creeps too, just for the record) [/quote] I suppose that they would say that they ask these questions to help you reach a clear state or whatever that is. But, it could be used against someone. And I had not thought about the confessionals. I wonder how many Catholics are being blackmailed?
scientology goes beyond confession. In a catholic confession, you go in willingly, and tell them what you want to tell them. in scientology, it's mandatory, and you're hooked up to a lie detector, and they get to ask you the questions. Failure to answer, or failure to get the right answer, or failing the test results in severe punishment, things like sleep deprivation, being forced to drink vegetable oil, being restrained or handcuffed in a basement for days... It just doesn't even compare.
[quote author=bryane link=topic=1100.msg3197#msg3197 date=1178890919] scientology goes beyond confession. In a catholic confession, you go in willingly, and tell them what you want to tell them. in scientology, it's mandatory, and you're hooked up to a lie detector, and they get to ask you the questions. Failure to answer, or failure to get the right answer, or failing the test results in severe punishment, things like sleep deprivation, being forced to drink vegetable oil, being restrained or handcuffed in a basement for days... It just doesn't even compare. [/quote] Is there documentation or proof that they punish people? I am not suggesting that this is not true but how come the media is not dicussing this? It seems that the media is not a friend to Scientology. Have there been lawsuits that have been won in relation to claims of such abuse? I just know very little about the group other than the media focus on them. I believe that this had something to do with Scientology's views on the drug industry and alternative health treatments.
Then I think that the same logic can be applied to the Manson clan too, no one dragged them to the Ranch to do drugs and murder. 8)
Does a church need 50cal. machine guns, rocket launchers, et al ??? The Waco wackos had an arsenal of weapons, many illegal and acquired during criminal activity. Seems to me they were dangerous but the ATF made a stupid problem much worse through inept and poorly thought methods.
yep, ATF tried to pull off a military assault, they had a severe lack of training and equipment for what they wanted to do. They should have called in Marines, who excel at house clearing and disarming. I guess people would be upset about Marines attacking Americans, but there would've been far less confusion and fewer casualties. Everything would've happened much faster and cleaner.
[quote author=bryane link=topic=1100.msg23391#msg23391 date=1211985594] yep, ATF tried to pull off a military assault, they had a severe lack of training and equipment for what they wanted to do. They should have called in Marines, who excel at house clearing and disarming. I guess people would be upset about Marines attacking Americans, but there would've been far less confusion and fewer casualties. Everything would've happened much faster and cleaner. [/quote] Posse Comitatus would keep them out(unless W was prez) and even then Koresh wanted to martyr himself, just didn't have the guts to go it alone!
[quote author=jollywest link=topic=1100.msg3191#msg3191 date=1178753351] I suppose that they would say that they ask these questions to help you reach a clear state or whatever that is. But, it could be used against someone. And I had not thought about the confessionals. I wonder how many Catholics are being blackmailed? [/quote] I'd love to see Charlie's answers if he supposedly was a "clear" :
