I also think it is not accurate to imply that the "same knives" were used. Knives cannot be matched exactly the way guns, at least theoretically, can. If 100 bayonets or machetes or pocket knives are manufactured they will all have the same characteristics.
Yes the knives would be hard to match. But the bayonet would be more significant to focus on. There are reports that similar bayonets were found at Spahn Ranch after the raid. Most killers use the same M0. And Manson did use a sword and bayonets in other crimes. Manson says hes not a gun man,but he did shoot Loadsapoper,and he nearly took G Hinmans ear of with a sword. But the thing is,as you guys have spotted. It would be near impossible to match anyone person to a perticular weapon,regardless of who used it. And the familly did move about,and probably had others affiliated to them. Thor
Didn't Thomas Noguchi the lead coroner for the Tate victims conclude that most of the victims wounds were probably done by the same knife (Watson's) by squeezing barium paste into the wounds and letting it dry. When pulled out of wound the shape of the knife would be apparant. He wrote that many of the stab wounds were between five and six inches deep and that the weapon was one which had one complete honed side and the other side had been sharpened one inch down from tip. Which gave it a similiar stab that would come from a bayonet. If an actual bayonet had been used both sides would have been equally sharpened wouldn't they?
I would think that a bayonet would have the same markings and leave the same wound depth on each side of the wound. But, then a sharpened knife on both sides would too. But if the sides of the wounds were different, then I would say no bayonet. Would like to see a picture of one of the knives and the bayonet though to see what they look like.
Sounds more like a Bowie knife. A really large scale hunting knife rather than a bayonet. I am looking for pictures. When I get done, I might look for pictures of knives. ;D
I guess by the barium tests Noguchi could tell that the none blade side had been sharpened an inch down from the tip. It's pretty fascinating. I'd like to see what they are talking about myself. I can sort of picture it but not really! Wasn't "Tex" supposed to have given lesson's on stabbing (and how do it right!)? What a nasty visual that is!!!
maybe it was a bowie knife? I just did a Google search on bowie knife images and that's a big maybe? What a wicked looking thing that is!
[quote author=Eddy link=topic=1292.msg12337#msg12337 date=1204205210] I guess by the barium tests Noguchi could tell that the none blade side had been sharpened an inch down from the tip. It's pretty fascinating. I'd like to see what they are talking about myself. I can sort of picture it but not really! Wasn't "Tex" supposed to have given lesson's on stabbing (and how do it right!)? What a nasty visual that is!!! [/quote] Yes he supposedly did that. But for some reason I have Karate Dave in my head doing that too. And he was Barbara Hoyt's beau at the time.
I believe the Bowie knife has been brought up before. A bayonet is designed to be mounted on a rifle. It is a thrusting weapon (hush, Cats) not for cutting. Therefore it has an edge on both sides. A Bowie knife would be very similar to the folding (?) Buck knives that the girls carried, just on a much larger scale and with a rigid blade. The back side of the blade could possibly be, but was not usually, sharpened.
I always thought he had a buck knife with tape on the handle. No less wicked than either a bowie or bayonet for sure. The non sharp side being sharpened an inch down from the tip was a "Manson" thing. Supposedly to inflict even deadlier wounds, which in fact it did!
[quote author=Eddy link=topic=1292.msg12361#msg12361 date=1204220876] I always thought he had a buck knife with tape on the handle. No less wicked than either a bowie or bayonet for sure. The non sharp side being sharpened an inch down from the tip was a "Manson" thing. Supposedly to inflict even deadlier wounds, which in fact it did! [/quote] Hold the phone, a Buck knife, at least the normal ones, cannot inflict a six inch stab wound. They are not nearly as large as a Bowie or a bayonet.
[quote author=Birds Away link=topic=1292.msg12364#msg12364 date=1204221314] [quote author=Eddy link=topic=1292.msg12361#msg12361 date=1204220876] I always thought he had a buck knife with tape on the handle. No less wicked than either a bowie or bayonet for sure. The non sharp side being sharpened an inch down from the tip was a "Manson" thing. Supposedly to inflict even deadlier wounds, which in fact it did! [/quote] Hold the phone, a Buck knife, at least the normal ones, cannot inflict a six inch stab wound. They are not nearly as large as a Bowie or a bayonet. [/quote] So, then Tex must have had the bayonet.
Buck's most popular fixed-blade hunting knife. Polished aluminum butt and guard. Beautifully balanced. Sheath included. Category End Use: Hunting Weight: 7.5 oz. (213 g.) Handle Material: Phenolic Carry System: Black leather sheath Blade Steel: 420HC Length Overall: 10 1/2" (26.7 cm.) Blade Length: 6" (15.2 cm.) Blade Shape: Clip Knife Type: None Catalog #: 9207 Not necessarily true. Yes, many of them have four or five inch blades but this little gem has a 6" blade and it's not folding like some (Tex didn't have a folding blade buck) but is a fixed blade which were popular years ago. Look this up on the internet. Many of the stab wounds were between five and six inches. Definately this knife was a type that could have been used!
I read that about Linda's knife having tape too Cat's. I guess I was going by Tex testimony that he didn't have a handle at all just tape around where the handle was supposed to be. Maybe Linda's grip was messed up and she had some tape on it to "fix" it. I think lots of the weapons at the ranch were both old and newer and had been used for God only knows!
[quote author=Eddy link=topic=1292.msg12382#msg12382 date=1204226805] I read that about Linda's knife having tape too Cat's. I guess I was going by Tex testimony that he didn't have a handle at all just tape around where the handle was supposed to be. Maybe Linda's grip was messed up and she had some tape on it to "fix" it. I think lots of the weapons at the ranch were both old and newer and had been used for God only knows! [/quote] And the problem is trying to decide who is the least liar...and that gets messy.
yeah and time has a way of eroding memories too! Let's face it..they didn't give a damn about those innocent people or killing them so a thing like a knife wouldn't be so relevant either. Tex and Sadie may have both been on crystal meth that night and according to them they were. But you know their actions that night have a lot more to do with the people they really are. I unfortunately was a meth addict for two years (five and half years clean guys! Hooray for that!). It didn't make me want to kill. I lied, and spent everything I had and maybe I'm just lucky but the thought of killing someone didn't ever enter the picture!)
