I am not sure how long they tried or how close they got. Doris Tate, in the interview with Ed Sanders, states she believes she had seen the black car that Marina was taken away in, in photographs of Spahn ranch.
Well, I think they knew, and their denial was just to make the public think that there wasn't one madman running around, and that perhaps havoc was indeed breaking loose. Shortly after the Tate murders, Ed Butler wrote that article or what not, called "Did Hate Kill Tate". Butler being an agent. The article went from blaming the Black Panthers to then the hippies and the Beatles, way before there were ties or links to Manson. Two groups of people, who were considered subversives. So it was placed in the minds of the public, and according to Preston Guillory, formerly of the LAPD, they were told to back off of Manson until they were given orders to proceed for the Raids. So, perhaps, the cops knew more than they were saying--and still do to this day...just one theory I have seen..not saying I disagree or agree with it.
It would be extreamly difficult to match a particular knife wound to a certain knife. There is little to compare them with. There would have to be more information to draw an conclution. I would not be at all surprised if you have multiple murders and stabbings in the area around the Chattsworth/Mulholland and West Hollywood area. According to source,the Familly had multiple knives and bayonets,take you`re pick over who used which knife/bayonet. Thor Interesting artical.But if anything had happened in that area,and i was Police,i would be straight out to the Santa Susanna Pass Road! With modern Forensic Tests now avalible,and these can be used on old DNA,many more killers have been detected,many years later,in some cases,decades latter. I dont know why we dont re-investigate all major cases,even the one that were solved. This is currently being done in Scotland and the whole of the UK,but just the unsolved cases. The truth is we would probably be staggered and appauled,at the amount of victims,any one killer did have. Usually these type of killers have a long previous list of past crimes,starting with minor sexual crime,such as assault or indecency. Then they work their way up. Leading to murder,rape,abduction etc. Thor
That is what I thought about the knives as well. I have always suspected that there was a killer that operated around that time and used Mullholland Drive as a dumping grounds. Also, if you look at all the "car trouble" vicitims that disappeared along the highway in the 70's, it would appear that another killer was on the loose.
Killers use the main highway routes. Frequently they do look for lone or vurnrable people. Dumping area,now thats interesting. Only recently have the Police fully understood the signifficance of the "Dumping area". The dumping area is now concidered the "Second Crime Scene". And it usually inducates,you`re boy is nearby. Ok he could be 2oo miles down that road,but the route he took,will lead you right back to him. Its a very effective method, now used by Police Agencys. Especially as cars and crime evolve,more killers are chosing abduction-rape-murder and then dump them! Thor
That is fascinating. You would have to make a map of all the unsolved murders in the area and where the bodies were dumped. You would have to make a timeline and determine what things about these crimes were consistent and what were not.
Trace evidence when kept under strick biological conditions can last for decades. Many "Cold Cases" are now solved years later,by re-examing the original trace evidence. Most criminals are unaware of the latest scientific advances,and fail to take this into consideration at the time. Anyone that comes into contact with a person,a room or an enviroment,leaves microscopic or miniscopic partacles or compounds of tissue(skin flakes,blood,sweat.sperm,hairspray,make up,dust,dirt,hair folicle etc) Psycological Profileing is also a major tool used. The proper title is Psycological Analysis. A profile is made useing certain well know Scientific and Psycology Fact. Set Formulaic Tables are used to try and identify the type(Profile) of the person involved. This method is very sucssesful regardless of trace evidence or a direct link to the victim. Its all about the science man,man. Thor
Yes make a map,get a bit of string,and look for the center. A point that all Primmary and Secondary Crime Scenes meet at. The area that this points to ,usually though not always(traveling sales man)is the back yard of you`re boy. He will be close by or will have lived in the area or works in the area,or has familly in the area. Something will conect him to there.Then to the victim. And then you have a lead,more will follow,untill his current wife will one day be mortifiyed that "Johnny" is getting dragged of by cops,for the rape/murder of a school girl he knew 25 years ago. Thor
I shudder to think what those psychological profilers would say about me, man. I know what you are saying. Unfortunately, not all evidence was retained in the proper way.
The thing is,we always have just the second hand info to go on. Sometimes we do have offical reports. To do any test with a good out come it has to be accurate. We have to seperate the wheat from the chalf. Look for the lowest common denominator. There is a saying in the USA. K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. If we could reach an consensus on the evidence,we might be able to understand the crimes better. The one thing extra that the cops had,that we do not have,is a consensus. They agreed with each other,even when it ment an majority agreeing. They chose one direction to go in. Ok i dont want to ruin all the exciteing debate we have here.But it does slow us up. And on that controversal note,i finnish. Thor
People can give away stuff just by the way they talk. Look at me with my spelling. Its destinctive and indicative of me.Its a traint that goes back to when i was about 12. If i wrote a Ransom note in my own hand(Dumb),there would be letters mis spelt in an constant and obvious way to a trained investigator. Do you`re ransom notes in black biro and over write every letter,it ruins the ability of the writing to be analised. Dont use felt tip.It can be seen under ultrared light,where as biro pen cant. Or something like that Thor Just dont kidnap anyone,the hardest part is always collecting the money.
They recently cut the tied knots of a ligature that was used in the Zodiac killings. Previously only the outer material had been swabbed for DNA. The results were poor,but it showes how confident the science comunity is. New techiques are being developed all the time. Thor
They made test cuts with the bolt cutters that Watson used to cut the lines at Tate, and said they didn't match, when in fact they were the same cutters.
Weird, on the bolt cutters. And I think that it would be interesting to map out, as Birds said, all the unsolved crimes that are similiar. It is said that killers have their "comfort zones" and more than likely, somewhere, unless a traveling serial killer (i.e. like a truck driver or something like Glen Rogers) , in the middle of the zone, we can kinda of pinpoint perhaps where the killer lived. Would be interesting in fact, if they had a suspect at the time.
That is why it is so tough with CM and all of the associated "family" members. The association were sometimes very loose and they seemed to be comfortable anywhere.
[quote author=Birds Away link=topic=1292.msg11771#msg11771 date=1203937704] That is why it is so tough with CM and all of the associated "family" members. The association were sometimes very loose and they seemed to be comfortable anywhere. [/quote] Very true. Also the Family members themselves were spread at various times from Venice to San Fran. Made it very hard to pinpoint who was where.
