And the picture above with the drivers window up, probably during the fingerprinting etc. of the car?
I come to the same assumption, for whatever it is worth. The rear quarter-windows were up and they are not mentioned, so I conclude not mentioning the passenger door window means the same. I could, just as easily, be all wrong.
I wanted to comment on the AMC-Rambler being at a swanky house in Beverly hills. I don't know if any of you have toured the streets of Beverly Hills, or Bel Air lately but there are a lot of cars that are just ordinary hunks of metal parked in a lot of the driveways these days, as there was back then, sure some of them have the nice Ferrari's, Porches's, BMW's, Rolls Royces, and such but there are a hell of lot of the ordinary cars I mentioned all over the BH/BA areas, and for that matter Stevens Fathers car was only three years old, and lets not forget Gibby was driving an ordinary 68 Fire bird, Roman a 69, Mustang while in the states, I don't think Voytek even had a car. Sharon had a nice little 1967 Red Ferrari I guess she would zip around in, maybe chasing Jay in his little Black Porches ? I must be getting old I lost my train of thought.
Hi Vince, I bet Sharon had win in the straight lines with the Ferrari but Jay won in the winding roads with his little 911, ha! I did read in a bio about The Doors that Sebring had a Cobra (AC?) around 1966-67, caught eye on Jim Morrison and he had later on a Cobra GT500 as a present for his first success with The Doors
I wonder if other cases are edited to the extent of the TLB case? I have never seen anything like it. If it goes against the grain or against the preposterous idea of ''staring a race war'' it is shot down faster than skeet in a turkey shoot. I would never wish harm to anyone, BUT whenever Bug goes to the big courtroom in the sky [or wherever he goes], hopefully some of the real story will have a chance to come out in the light.
As much as I would hope that to happen Coonhound I don't believe it will! Who would open there mouth at that point? They have gone along with this story for so long and it probably has kept some from being sent to prison as well! What I am hoping is there will be one who is already convicted that will give a death bed confession!
Do you guys believe that group of killers was organized enough with their heads and faculties sharp enough to all stick to the same story about both nights of murders?
Endoracat, And aye, there's the rub. I have long believed that this bunch of stoned-out losers couldn't have organized a two-car parade, let alone two nights of mayhem. However, while some of the details have changed over time, depending on who was telling the story and why, the overarching story has more or less remained the same -- Steven died first, Sharon died last, there was lots of screaming and carrying on, and Rosemary Labianca was of course dead when Leslie stabbed her. I have no idea how they've basically held it together all this time -- considering they were (variously, according to their own accounts) stoned on speed, in shock, high on Charlie or intent on waging race war at the time of the crimes. I'm not completely convinced they even totally remember what really happened; they may have reconstructed their memories from the stories of the others to the point where the others' memories have become their own. The bigger question, to me, is not why they did it, or even how they did it, but who did it -- in terms of constructing the "here's the story of what happened, here's the order in which it happened, here's who was there, here's what they did, and this will be the story of what happened forever and ever, amen, world without end, do not deviate from this script even if it would benefit you to do so." Somehow, I don't think the story as it's been told originated inside the Family.
That is the one thing that has kept troubling me throughout the years. We know the blood evidence tells a different story than what the killers say happened. Yet, every one of them has told the same story over and over again for the past 44 years now, all separate from each other. We know that they lie and lie and lie, but eventually people get tripped up on their lies, but they all continue to stick to the same version of events.
But Tex admits (I think in Will You Lie for Me?) that he didn't tell the truth but heard what Susan Atkins said and then told the same story. (he only admitted to stabbing Sharon in later years. He claimed Susan did it in the beginning) So how many stories were influenced by Susan's story from the beginning?
Good point. Honestly, I don't think we should hold our breaths for any one of them to come clean with the true version of events, although wouldn't that be something, if one of them blew the entire case wide open with what really happened after all of these years? I'm surprised that no one, like a writer, or a movie producer has ever attempted to extract the true events of that night at Cielo..you know, presented them with the blood evidence and ask any one of them outright to try and explain...someone like Tex, who has such delusions of grandeur might just be the one to spill the beans if he was promised to receive "credit" for his contributions to either a book or a movie....but then again, he lies so much ... it would be very hard to believe anything he says...
Nobody needs to ''open their mouth'' at all. The evidence is there that points to another more realistic version of events. Sometimes the myth gets so ingrained that it might never be fully erased, even if given evidence that points to a totally different outcome. I don't take much stock in the theory of Helter Skelter BUT someone did because it is written on the LaBianca's refrigerator. Perhaps different participants needed different reasons to come to the point of murdering another human being. A con man can plant seeds in fertile minds that can grow to monsterous porportions. At the same time, actions that one would not carry out if alone, can be brought to fruition if carried out by a group. Peer pressure, group think, call it what you will, a criminal group dynamic leading to ever more serious crimes makes as much sense, [in my belief much more sense] than any take on ''brain washing'' followers of a ''guru''. I just dont think Charles Manson was smart enough to wash his own laundry, nevermind the brains of 2-3 dozen ''followers''. The tumultuous atmosphere of the late sixties created the perfect storm if you will not only for these murders to be carried out but also for the general public [the anxiety ridden "silent majority"] to believe anything it was told in regards to why they really happened [motive].
Also, please explain to me how Jay's blood got on that front gate button and was "clean" enough to type it as such? A big deal is made over the print being ruined, but how did Jay's blood get out there in such a clean sample?
So the question I have is: where did the check bullet go? Setting aside a trajectory that would make Arlen Spector weep in frustration, it went in one side of his face, out (vaguely) the other, and then...disappeared? No bullet in the car. No damage to the windows that would allow it to leave the car. So where did it go? I think this is further evidence that Steve Parent (or at least his head) was not inside the vehicle for the face shot.
I'm replying to both of you because I would be saying the same thing to each of you! My gut feeling is the Helter Skelter theory is off base! @Coonhound you are right no one needs to open there mouth! The evidence may show that there is a different version of events that really happened but from what I can gather nobody has reopened the case or stepped forward. Nothing has changed and I really don't think, it is ever going to! I believe the officials don't want to ruffle any feathers! They probably already have an idea that the Helter Skelter theory isn't truly the story! Like I have seen mentioned on this board before, and I think by Mike, I think that the officials only keep refreshing this case when one of the convicts are up for parole! My gut feeling and I know I have said this on other boards but I feel the true story and answers lies within Tex, Linda and (lying in her grave) Susan! What the true story is, I don't know but that is why I am here!
I don't think that Ms. Chapman noticed the body just because she simply didn't look inside the vehicle. Iknow that I don't normally walk past vehicles and peer inside of them.
