In Paul Krassner's book Confessions of a Raving Unconfined Nut, he talks about Jay getting burned on $2,000 worth of cocaine (this was mentioned in Helter Skelter) and says that Jay sought vengeance on Billy Doyle by tying him to a chair and sodomizing him. According to Krassner, Voyteck also participated and the incident was recorded and reviewed by the LAPD after the murders. Does anybody know if there is any truth to this story or if it is just another bizarre tale that was fabricated to shame the victims? The story was also brought up in Sharon Tate and the Manson Murders...
Interesting.......More info, please..........It could be true, but I just can't see Jay doing something like that, but that's just me
This was mentioned in "HS." Apparently this did happen, but not at Cielo. It took place at Mama Cass's house and neither Jay nor Sharon were involved. (as to whether or not the guy was punished because of ripping off Jay, who knows, but I tend to doubt it very much) On the other hand, Voyteck and Abigail lived (or were going to live) very close to Mama Cass so that makes me wonder....
Question: How do you get a grown man to sit in a chair and tie him up so you can flog him willingly? Was a gun being held to his head? I don't know anyone, unless they love the pain of being beaten, who wouldn't put up a fight. I can see Voytek doing something like flogging more than I can see Jay, and that's because Jay doesn't really want to inflict the actual pain, he just wants to pretend that he's causing pain when performing his particular brand of foreplay. But, one never knows, does one? Perfectly respectable pilars of society sometimes hide a terrible secret life, such as buying young girls or boys for sex, going out and picking up male prostitutes, being involved in snuff films, etc. Pretty darn scary, if you ask me, but STILL!!!!! I just can't see Jay doing anything like that. :-\
I don't know how they could've gotten him to do that either. Did they hold a gun to his head? Drug him first? Good question, BB.
http://truthontatelabianca.com/index.php?topic=79.0 Paul's chapter from his book that he said I could put up and sent me. When I asked him about Doyle et al he said it is all in this chapter. He is a great guy, and does answer his email and right quick I may add. I am wondering if it wasn't Witold K who was involved in this incident. Out of Doyle's own mouth he was indeed chained to the tree ( his poly tapes) but he claims there was no buggering. The version of events with Doyle did indeed involve an arguement with Voytek in which Charles Tacot came over to help him (yes by chaining him to the tree to detox,) but I think the drug burn that caused the buggering was something different entirely.
I've always heard he had some sick fetishes. Who knows? The first post of this topic, left an awful image in my mind. God forbid, If i was going to get back at someone, the last thing I would want to do is sodomize them. SICK FUCKING THOUGHT.
if I was going to sodomise someone by force the last thing I would do would be to tie them to a chair, which to me implies in a sitting position. Maybe across a table, bath, etc. Something doesn't seem quite right to me - but then maybe I'm naive in these matters? Jem
OMG ROFLMAO... :-* I would make it hard to access the needed area...forgot about that...it is the simple things that are overlooked.
Put your imagination caps on, it's time to visualize. Maybe they had him sit with his chest against the back of the chair, his butt hanging off the seat, arms tied around the back of the chair, legs tied up underneath and on the legs securely. Seems about right. Even Manson hints at all the debauched sexual stuff going on in that scene. Manson & the Family may have had orgies but it seems these were very normal compared to the perversions the people at "the spiral staircase" engaged in. Could Sharon Tate have been starring in underground porn films of the most perverted sort? Personally I don't put anything past Roman Polanski and after all, she was his wife.
i believe manson and the women may have met jay sebring at the spiral staircase house. remember manson claimed that it was sebring not frykowski who had had sex with atkins. it's just a theory no proof. it just seems like sebring would be more interested in things going on at the spiral staircase that tate or polanski or anyone else in their crowd. sammy davis jr. came forword after the murders and said he had gone to a party and sebring offered him a goblet of rat poison or something like that. it appears sebring was more into occult tinged things.
Darn Beauders - did you really need to add yet another motive... like SA carrying a flame for Jay and upset he still hanging with Tate and co. Says of our Lives couldn't make this stuff up.
Your stories are always so interesting and I know who you're referring to in your last story. Such a sad one. I've asked my sources about some of this stuff and have been told that the story that Sammy told is not true at all. That's how it was put to me, not true at all. Someone else said to me that Jay had no problem getting women and wondered why anyone would even think he'd be with someone like SA. PM me sometime with your e-mail addy so we can chat like we used to!!
manson told paul krassner that atkins had been with sebring, when krassner had asked if frykowski had been having sex with her. the spiral staircase days were early on i think manson and the women were a whole lot cleaner at that time and presentible, gentle, hippie types. atkins was not bad looking at that time and this would be about the time sebring and tate broke up. also i don't think they had a grand love affair just a few times. plus i don't think atkins had enough feelings for anyone to be jealous when the murders happened, she was too "dead in head," to feel anything.
Agreed, and I was intrigued at another thread in which Tex talked of some gang members attending "love ins" at locations away from Spahn in the final days.
I miss you too, Blondie! Especially 7 the pms - so hard to type - yesterday I was finally semi-diagnosed with some sort of horrible Gravis - am headed to Mayo this morning for a blood test that might show antibodies to it "if the disease hasn't progressed so far it can't make antibodies - Jeez... I've never believed that story either - I don't care how good Susan looked she never looked like the type that Jay would be with - I think he may he suffered from impotence anyway - And Sammy Davis was just trying to be Mr. Cool in a White Tall world where he was unsure of his short and black self - remember black is beautiful was newly coming about - Back to Rome - I can't tell you hw debauched that private club was - I was luckily a goody two shoes except for drugs - but good grief and think of the Love-In's - I always avoided such and still think think they were devised by men (ugly men) so they could score with better looking females....
