Saw your post on the Daily Mail site. I tried to post too - the post was 'accepted' by the software but never appeared. Must have been something I said, or the way I said it. The DM really is the pits. Jem
Sad that the Daily Mail continue to run with this (non) story. Wonder what will be said when (and if) the tapes reveal........ nothing?
Si, you did get a mention in the L.A. Times as well, but it was clear that the article was written by someone that had little or no understanding of either the crimes in general or the point you were attempting to make.
Dill - I spoke at length regarding Joel and how the police didn't bother to call his family/explore his mental health history -examine his (slight) connection with M etc. I also sent over my blog with the research/photos etc. So what happens? They take a short statement of my belief that John Haught was indeed an M Family murder victim and then embellish it. The problem I had was that the reporter was deferring to Steve Kay's opinion all the time - and so my beliefs were evidently of little consequence- only if it chimed with the D.A's - hence the result. Hope you're good. Si x
Now the UK's chief purveyor of sleaze - The Sun - has picked up the story. Note: they've filleted my blog - pinched the photo and of course - have made zero reference to Joel's state of mental health etc. Weirdly, Jim Balfour went out of his way to check details for me regarding Joel and Manson - and never once said he previously believed Charlie ordered Joel's death. It rolls on! http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...rles-Manson-order-murder-in-London-hotel.html
Classic gutter journalism, eh Simon? I wonder how out of context Balfour's quotes are or for that matter how accurate? I must say though I'm glad they included that 1978 picture of Charlie (3rd one down in the article)... it's always reminded me of Maynard G. Krebs (showing my age here)...
That is major conclusion hi jumping to connect the Tex Tapes to Pugh. IMO there remains a slim possibility his death was Manson related but surely if the Tex Tapes reveal anything it would be about Zero's mysterious demise?
My conversations with Jim NEVER once revealed that he thought Manson was involved - so I am bemused (although not entirely surprised). I have put a call through to Jim and am waiting on his response - will let you know. x
And in classic Sun style, no less. In a story about some tapes Watson made with his attorney, there are six images of Manson, one of Sandy Good & Joel Pugh, one of Sharon Tate, one of Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski and exactly NONE of Watson, himself. News coverage at its finest. One might think people could find something else to read on the train, but The Sun soldiers on.
Britain's Daily Express has just rehashed the story with Stephen Kay now saying that Manson was "known to hate Joel". I just wonder where Kay is getting his info from? http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view...-by-hippy-Sixties-cult-leader-Charles-Manson-
He probably does the rounds of family penitentiary visits and dangles a promise of a parole recommendation if they can offer any encouraging titbits that might shore up his fantasies or desires to reveal more murders. A man obsessed? Alternatively he listens to Hoyt/Debra talk FWI(not)W.
Simon, I always love those kinds of headlines. We've no clue what might be on those tapes, but they hold the key to 35 murders ordered by the cult leader. Gieusabreak! What evidence is there that Manson even knew Joel Pugh?
I know Mike - it's crazy and it's infuriating! Despite the enormous effort of myself and many others- it appears the myth is something that is far more attractive to the media; the Manson case probably being the worst example. From what I can gather Joel never met Manson. Equally, other than Sandy Good, he never met anyone connected to CM or visited any of the "Family" hangouts. Given some of Joel's brother's comments, I gather that Joel - and others in his circle - were aware of Sandy Good's movements and her turn towards Manson. However, that's about as far as it went. All my info is on this blog- a nice device I can update as/when new information surfaces. http://joelpughcharlesmanson.blogspot.co.uk/
Thanks Simon, that supports my own understanding there was no contact between Pugh and Manson. As long as the phony headlines gets punters buying the papers, who cares about the truth, aye?
I wonder how John Phillip Haught feels about NOT being voted the most likely suicide to have actually been a "Family" murder victim? I mean Bruce Davis' prints are on the gun! They claimed it was Russian Roulette but all the chambers were loaded! Yet Kay is on about Joel, who was suffering from severe depression, who never met Manson and was in England when he died?
Mike - I left the door open (so to speak) for any new information to come through - if it does, it will be worked into the blog. However, I am gob-smacked that Stephen Kay talks with such conviction. If he is SO sure of his assumption regarding Joel - why hasn't he instructed the D.A's office to re-open the case or indeed quiz Bruce Davis?
Only going on memory here as it is ages since I read it, but I thought the book about Goods sister made a fleeting reference to her and her partner of the time having met CM or having thought the Families influence was altogether creepy. CM slithered into many homes and lives, he had few boundaries - on their travels they would stay at parents of his concubines eg Atkins Dads place. CM liked money sources so had to have worked the connections of his bette money sources like Sandy and her associates. It's what cons do, so can it really be ruled out that he had checked out her contacts as possible targets for cash/control either by phone or in person.
