Interesting thought....

So I'm chatting with a friend who's also into this whole thing and she blindsides me with something that I've never thought of before. (I wanted her to join the board to do this herself, but....) We discussing various things and she said that everyone always talks about Manson coming back and disturbing the crime scene by taking Jay and Sharon's bodies onto the front porch and so on. She said that Garretson seemed really traumatized when questioned in the morning. She said (and I'm paraphrasing this, of course) "What if it was Garretson who was in the house after the killers left? He's since claimed that he DID hear things so maybe after things got quiet he decided to investigate. He's already noticed that Gibby and Voyteck are dead, but he goes into the house and discovers that Sharon and Jay are barely alive, but he feels that there's a chance to save them. He carried them to the front porch and goes in search of car keys or whatever. (because, obviously the phones are dead) By the time he finds whatever he's looking for, they've both passed away. He doesn't know what to do except to try to put things back the way they were which is why he carries them back into the living room. This would explain how their blood got onto the front porch when the killers claimed that neither of them had been on the front porch."

Now, I'm not saying that I necessarily believe this, but it was quite interesting and did make me think. I've never heard anyone else ever come up with this thought.

That IS interesting.... And just as plausible as the notion of Manson returning.

I personally don't believe for a second Manson returned. He wouldn't have had time, for one thing, and too risky for another.

I think he might have bragged -and lied- that he went back just so he could get some attention and claim he was part of the whole thing. Exactly the same bragging dozens of celebrities did when they claimed they were invited to Cielo that night and declined.

Interesting. But if so, why would he not go get help after moving the bodies? Dead bodies are heavy and awkward to move. Dragging them from location to location would have left obvious blood trails and smears. And Garretson was a smallish guy, wasn't he? I can't think of a reason why he'd go to the trouble to try to resuscitate them, move them, and then not run to the neighbors for help. Unless something interrupted or scared him (The arrival of the woolly hophead for instance...?).

In all seriousness I think Garretson coud be the key to clearing up some major mysteries. Anyone know how to contact him?

Last I heard he ws in the Midwest. As for dragging the bodies around...did not happen. To do so, you would leave amazing amounts of evidence. Drag marks, issues with rigor and blood trails

Simply, this could not have happened, Mahler is right.

No, the only thing we can be absolutely sure about is they died where they lay when found

I agree with your last sentence. I also don't see how he could've moved them due to his size and I also didn't see why (IF this scenario did happen) he wouldn't have thought, "they're alive, I need to get help" and, as you said, gone to a neighbor's house. But, I just thought it was interesting because it was different.

Peach, that is probably one of the most interesting theories I've heard in a LONG time. Do tell your friend we don't have coodies, so she can join :cats4: and we won't bite, promise. Its more fodder to banter about.
:wacky: Bb

Yes i totally agree aswell..aside from the issuses stated above i dont believe he could have seen that horrific scene inside the house then gone back to the guesthouse..no way.Anyone seeing that would immediately raise the alarm in what ever way was possible at the time.

I have always thought that he knew of the Family, maybe from the ride he got from the hippie kid's or in some other way.

Certain questions come up here so frequently concerning the same individuals (Garretson, Tex, Bugliosi, etc.). While they are alive there's still a chance they could illuminate some critical dark spots in the case. Maybe we should try to reach consensus on 5 or 10 questions, respectfully (but penetratingly) asked, and present them? There could even be boards for this purpose (i.e., What five questions would you ask Garretson?). Just a thought.

Super idea, MFan!! hyeah: The only thing is, there are SO many questions to ask him, we would probably have to vote, with the ones having the most votes given to him to answer. I have a lot myself.

Could it be that the white van Garretson got the ride in was Charlie in the ice cream truck? I agree that Garretson probably knows more that what he told LAPD.

Thanks BB, I'll tell her. When she was telling me about it, I thought "ohhhhhh" because I'd never thought of this possibility. It's always nice to think of something new. I'll encourage her to join.

What about the eye glasses ?

IMHO, I think Garretson was too scared and did not come out to investigate.

It makes more sense that Manson and someone came back. (I think it was Brenda.)

The glasses make more sense with Manson coming back.

But, what is hard to believe is Manson and others coming back and Garretson still goes
unnoticed.

Also, I think BRENDA is the key to the real motives.

Brenda was one of the few that was privy to everything and Manson seemed to completely trust her.

Brenda knows. And possibly Bruce Davis.

Garretson, Do you REALLY believe that Rosie is the the Polanski child ? REALLY ?? REALLY ???

this is a stretch but i have always wondered if william garretson may have known john haught? they both came from ohio to los angeles that summer. any thoughts?

I agree with this, especially if PK told Tex she checked and noone was in there (she may have left a bloodied print on the door handle or left bloodied feet prints on the inside). Also, if Manson went to Cielo Dr. (after the homicides) here are additional questions I have:

If he had the time to wipe Parent's car of prints and blood, why not take his wallet or the money in it (although I think Linda K. told Larry King she did--40 years later--which contradicted police reports)?

How did Manson and/or minions know where to look for prints to clean them up?

If he placed the eye glasses by the steamer trunks..........how did he fail to spot the broken handle pieces of the .22 buntline that were nearby?

Why didn't he take the drugs that were there?

Why didn't he take the money that was there, especially on the nightstand in Sharon's room, in plain view?

Why didn't he take Jay's watch (a Cartier if I'm not mistaken) if he had the time to place a towel around his head or
his jacket with money? I'm sure Manson could have fenced the watch without it being traced to him at Spahn ranch.

Why didn't he find the knife in the couch if Tex and Sadie told him about what went down and where? I would think the couch where VF was bound would be an obvious place to look. Plus the living room desk lamp was left on......some lighting was available.

How did he miss the feet prints on the walkway and not clean them up or throw dirt on them or poor water on them (a pool was there) to mess up the evidence?

I remain skeptical about Manson going to Cielo Dr. after the murders.........but with facts (not conjecture) I'm open to changing my opinions.

The van ride Garrettson (later) claimed he had on the night of August 8th is SO intriguing. Aside from Nellie's book, he is on film recounting the incident for the "E" Channel's "Sharon Tate" biography (which is surprisingly in-depth and comprehensive). Just why it didn't come up under questioning or on the polygraph is surprising. His line: "If I were you I wouldn't be going back up there" throws a whole new angle on what later happened. The fact he chose to reveal it 30 years later leaves many questions. IMHO, that would suggest that he knew much more than actually let on at his initial arrest. That said, Garretson's later involvement with Rosie Tate would suggest that his judgement is perhaps open to scrutiny. I cite his comment, "someone should take this woman seriously" in support of this.

Absolutely fascinating though. What can we draw from it?

Si x

Joe, sometimes, when I read all this stuff and try to consider things, and wonder why Manson didn't take jewelry, money, drugs, etc., it just makes me wonder if the whole 'let's get money to bail out Mary and make a copy cat crime' was just a bunch of horse crap. Sometimes I wonder if it all boils down to Charlie just wanted to murder people in a gory, weird way and see if he could get somebody to do it for him, and then see if he could get away with it, which could be why he went to wipe things down and take away and put things in the crime scene (if he indeed did)to mess with the fuzz. It was the ultimate trip for a petty criminal and he wanted to graduate from the small time to the big time. That would make him more of a meglomaniac than we orginally, or at least I did, perceive him to be.

And Simon, you make some interesting points also. However, I wonder if WG didn't say anything because there are people in this world who don't volunteer anything unless its asked of them. My husband always told me that if I ever got pulled over by the cops don't say anymore than you have to, because, you see, I'm a nervous gabber. I've seen many a time on tv shows, and I know its not real on TV, but I've also heard people in real life say the same thing, when asked why they didn't say anything before to the police or to a lawyer, and they ALWAYS say, no one asked them. Garretson seemed a lot like that type of person.