Does anyone have a timeline on when this became a part of Family life? I'm curious if it began long before the Lotsapoppa shooting, right before or after. It seems Helter Skelter started coming down fast beginning with the shooting, and I've always thought the crawly missions were sort of recon and conditioning for Manson's minions to was to come later. The crawls could have served as missions to check out possible victims, as well as for Charlie to get a look at who had the requisite skill and mind set to invade a home and follow orders.
Susan Atkin's Grand Jury Testimony and Tex Watson's book. Basically Atkins says once she creepycrawled and without CM's knowledge and Watson states he saw Kasabian and Atkins in the early morning hours, August 8th, wearing black and talking about credit stolen cards. Watson just finished off munching on his daily dose of belladonna and had been up all night speeding. Recon missions! I would say Watson would have been fortunate if he crossed the street without getting hit. I'll just respectfully disagree with you on that one. Creepycrawling , I wonder if Bugliosi had anything to do that fantasy.Also wondering if CM's new nickname should be Commander Chuck! Damn , do I need to apologize again. Maybe I'll just make excuses instead of apologizing, afterall it has been a long,long day.
many people came forword after learning of the creepy-crawls, knowing they had been creepy crawled including country singer jack jones and michelle phillips of the mama's and the papa's.
The Jack Jones was done by Bill Vance. Didn't they take a Stetson hat on that one. Yeah? I would call that a robbery and no doubt there was a gang of thieves operating out of Spahn Ranch. And the penguin thing with John Phillips. Could have been anybody? I'm talking about the concept as presented by the DA. That CM was encouraging "Family" members to enter houses to overcome fear. Atkins says just the opposite. That she did it once with Kasabian on August 7-8th and without CM's knowledge. I would be interested in hearing any other examples of creepcrawling.
catherine share has claimed that atkins and grogan creepy-crawled the labianca house just nights before the murders. something was going on at the labianca house the dogs were outside when left inside by the labianca's, things had been moved around. leno wrote about it to his daughter corina. during testimony i believe it was danny decarlo, who testified that they spent all their time in the hollywood hills creepy-crawling.
That's interesting on the Labianca's! Wasn't that info from the Nelson book? Wonder if anybody followed up on it. I would surmise that anyone watching the LaBiancas would be the people he owed the money to. Does a copy of that letter Leno wrote to Corina exist anyplace where I could read it? I just don't trust DeCarlo. Too shady for me. Too much of an ulterior motive to be reliable. But thanks for the info on the Labianca's.
Cats, wasn't there a piece of floor covering that came up missing at the LaBianca's? CC, I agree with you on DeCarlo. He was doing some serious ass-covering and I imagine he was willing to say anything the authorities wanted him to say.
Yeppers, the prosecution had him by the balls. DeCarlo was singing like a canary but the prosecution was writing the song. I'm wondering just exactly where Kasabian and Atkins went on the night of August 7th? That could be an interesting answer if someone would have asked the damn question.
Celtic and Cats, the Bug writes on page 50 of Helter Skelter that Rosemary Labianca knew someone had been in her house, describing how furniture had been moved and the dogs being outside when they were supposed to be inside.
Beauders is correct. I finished Michelle phillips book "California Dreamin'" where she describes the creepy crawls along their neighborhood. The Philips lived in Laurel Canyon, though, and the murder happened in Benedict canyon. I wonder were they crawling all over the canyons??
From Sadie's grand jury testimony (doesn't sound like Bugliosi's imagination to me), and clearly wasn't a one-time thing as she described what "everyone" had been doing: Q. How did you do that? What did you do? A. Well, we went out on garbage runs and we went and panhandled and one time one girl and I put on dark clothes and took it upon ourselves to do this--Charlie had no knowledge of this--we went out and creepy-crawled. Q. Creepy-crawled? A. Yes. Q. Explain to these members of the Jury what you mean by that. A. Moving in silence so that nobody sees us or hears us. Q. Wearing dark clothing? A. Wearing very dark clothes and move at night. Q. Where did you go? A. We hitchhiked over into--I forget the area--and we were scared to death, it was something neither one of us ever experienced, and wanted to experience it because everybody else in the Family was doing it. Q. They were doing what? A. Creepy-crawling. Q. Entering residences at night? A. Yes.
I found a letter dated May 21, 1969 in Alice's book on pg. 412 that say, "We haven't had any more robberies, but every time I come home I expect either to find someone in the house or something missing. I think the police have stopped working on the case and we haven't heard anything from the insurance company." Interesting this stuff was happening back in May. Maybe the LaBianca's had been a target to screw with since hanging out at Harold True's house? I forget those dates. I don't recall reading about previous robberies, only mention that they suspected someone was there before shortly before the murders.
Maybe Charlie was going there to look for the black book and was unable to find it. As a last resort he sent his minions to torture it out of them? FB
FB: Big coincidence that Manson and 3 of the family girls hung out at Harold's several times during the times of the robberies at LaBianca's over a year before the murders sure puts them in my mind as possible burglary suspects. I feel the black book is too much of a wild second coincidence if as the theory goes Manson was asked by a mob associate but perhaps they heard stories about about the LaBianca's while hanging out at Harold's? I know Harold has said he believed that no one was even living in the LaBianca house so perhaps the motive may have been that the house seemed like ripe pickings to check out?
Tone, I have always wondered why they didn't just move into the house if it was empty. They spent a lot of time squatting wherever they could. Why not park the van at True's place and squat at La Bianca's if it was unoccupied? FB
I think the LaBianca's were living there at the time which is why I suspect they may have creepy crawled it and stole some things rather than squat. Harold True probably just never ran into the LaBianca or saw them but they may have kept odd hours or been traveling a lot? Harold's place must have been quite the attraction if Linda and her husband stopped by from Oregon before she even knew about Manson which was probably around around the same time frame Manson and Co. were hanging out there too. One more coincidence huh?
Are there any priors (arrests) on any on the Manson girls or guys for home invasion, breaking and entering or burglary? In Helter Skelter--there are a few paragraphs about Creepy Crawls. I have my doubts about this idea of there Creepy Crawls, I think VB made it up or exaggerated the idea of how stealthy the Manson crew was. It seems a lot of what the the Manson group was linked to by way of the Prosecution was sloppy left behind evidence or manufactured evidence. Creepy Crawls, was that name lifted from the 1965 kid's playset "CREEPY CRAWLERS". I find it hard to believe that the Manson group was so good at stealth activity, as in home invasion. Did any of the Manson group during interrogation, ever go into detail in how they got into a house, as in dog doors, or how to pry open a locked window or door without leaving evidence. Were any other houses that were burglarized in 68-69 linked to the Manson group? As in certain tracts in CA, which were close to where the Manson group lived? I have not read or seen in talk shows of that era 1969-70, that the group had burglar kits or mini flashlights with them or at there dwellings. The wires cut at Cielo drive, (photos of the gate) were a mess, they were draped all over the front gate area, they were not hidden. According to different books on the subject---TW moves SP's car backwards to hide the vehicle after the teen is killed, yet in the photos of the estate's front gate, the cut wires of the Tate-Polanski manner are left in plain site. The Manson Family were good at other things, but Creepy Crawls? True Creepy Crawlers, continue to work areas and steal money and guns from homes, and when they are caught, they have all kinds of gadgets on them to make their work easier, even back in 1969, burglars had kits and flashlights. Is there any info on how accurate VB was about how adept the Manson group was when it came to Creepy Crawls-stealth activity? Also, did the group have flashlights on them when they went into the La Bianca and Tate houses? Just in case the power was off, or in how to navigate the grounds? According to some reports, TW and the girls just went through the front gate and there was very little sneaking going on, because they ran straight into SP as he drove down the driveway.
