Autopsy of Abigail Folger

I checked out HS yesterday (BB maybe see if there is a cheap copy for sale on ebay) and it's on page 24 about the reservation etc. It also says that some people said the foursome went to the Daisy later on or some other club after El Coyote) and that's where Bugliosi was skeptical so maybe that's where the mix up started :shrug2:

I have waited tables several times in my life and believe me, when someone with ST's looks sits in your section you remember her. Strikingly beautiful with or without makeup, I probably couldn't describe who she was with but I would remember her. It is funny how AF looks very pretty in some pics and others she looks like a dowdy housewife, go figure.

FB

Maybe Sharon didn't go with them at all. They could have brought her a "to go" box back to the house.

FB

maybe he just drank?

I was reading the fingerprint report earlier and there was a beer bottle on the nightstand with Sebring's prints on it. I assume by that he must have had some alcohol in his system. Unless they spent more time in the bedroom than previously thought and it was left there earlier. I'm having a TFH moment not disrespecting ST.

FB

Any thoughts on this one, i.e., the difference between the Documented and Undocumented stab wounds?

maybe the coroner thought it was a stab wound but it wasn't deep enough to be a stab wound and was merely a cut on the flesh?

What's THF?

TFH = Tin Foil Hat.

I would guess that a documented stab wound would be one that was measured and examined for depth/shape/direction and/or whether it was pre or post mortem, whereas an undocumented stab wound was just counted and added to the total, possibly because it was too superficial or featureless to say anything about it except that it was there.

Thank you, Dill! I've seen the phrase used before, but not the initials and was totally lost.

The wound on SP, is thought to be by a bayonet that is six inches in length with a guard according to Noguchi. I have never seen a bayonet six inches long, I think the wound was done with a Kbar knife sometimes known as a Trench Knife. The old military Trench Knives had a metal guard that went from the blade plate around the handle to protect the attacker when blocking or striking. The old Kbars-Trench Knives were about 7 inches in length. If you drive it or slash somebody with a sharp Trench knife you can mark or bruise the victim with the hand guard.

I think the kind of the striking weapons at Cielo and Waverly, would be a big clue as to what really happened at those places.

As I have stated before the crime scene does not make sense with what the hit teams claimed. Or does not make sense from a tactical perspective. What the hit teams were armed with according to V. Bugs at Cielo and Waverly I do not believe.

As for the pistol being used, a .22 cal 8 cylinder revolver---I have read that it misfired, and seven bullet wounds were recorded on the Cielo victims. Remember, the hit team at Cielo were not trained killers, even at point blank range, at five-eight feet----untrained robbers, can shoot off a whole clip or cylinder of bullets and only get a hit or couple of hits, or even zero hits. When the target is moving, it is life and death, an untrained person can miss at incredibly close range. So was the house checked for stray bullet hits? Parts of the Cielo attacks read as near impossible. These bumblers --the Cielo hit team, manage to kill 5 people, yet the hit team does not report any broken nose, bruises, black eyes, and it was hand to hand at times. If you hit somebody hard enough with a Buntline .22 cal to break its handle, then many times- the cylinder will pop open, and depending on the struggle,the bullets or spent casings will fall out or have to pushed back into the chambers. The bits of the Buntline grip are found inside, so did Tex pistol whip Sebring inside and Voytek outside. The whole scenario does not make sense. Voytek was a tough guy-dug dealer-Sebring was a small guy but had been trained in martial arts, they knew the house, they are confronted by 3 girls and one guy, who according to the accounts have knives and one pistol. Yet they do not react to SP four gunshots and are caught unaware. Bruce Lee trained Sebring, ------even in basic training------ Bruce Lee would always instruct his students when it came to the hand to hand go for the eye rake-gouge, none of the hit team report Sebring even using his know how, or at least I have not read or heard of Sebring using anything that he was taught for hand to hand. Another big question about the Cielo accounts--- was SP on the porch, it seems blood samples at Cielo are disputed. Either way, no matter how you read V. Bugs book or the hit teams accounts they do not match up with evidence. The hits at Cielo and Waverly were not over a race war and both slaughters- Cielo and Waverly-- did not happen like it is written.

Hello....I am new. Acid Phosphatase was used to determine the presence of sperm in cases where sexual assault might be questioned.

Thank you and you're welcome.

Hi, I'm fairly new here. Just a few thoughts to share:
1. poisonivy: you already made a point I wanted to bring up about the acid phosphatase--used to check for sexual assault.
2. I think that the petechia mentioned in AF's autopsy report refers to her brain, not her eyes. The coroner is referring to the condition of the dura--the dura mater is the outermost layer of the protective membranes covering the brain. It's possible to have petechia in other places besides the sclera of the eyes.
3. There is at least one account of the killings that has both AF and ST with the rope around their necks. AF's autopsy reports show contusions on her neck, and I'm wondering if that could have caused those contusions.
4. I don't find it hard to believe that 3 killers within the house controlled 4 victims. VF was tied up early on, 2 women are wielding knives, and a man has a knife and a gun and tells you he wants money. I think they were inclined to cooperate with him. Once Jay was shot, that left 3 killers to control 3 victims, one of whom is very, very pregnant. The victims didn't really start fighting until Watson tells them that they're all going to die.

Welcome Gracie. #3 good question. Also 3 people with weapons might trump 4 people w/out them. Not to mention the attackers had the advantage of being savages.