A friend and I were talking the other day about the 1982 shockumentary "The Killing of America", an interesting, Faces of Death style, Japanese market made film that left quite an impression when we both saw it over twenty years ago. In particular, the Manson sequence of the film (it's made up of plenty of crime scene, serial killer interviews, court room and stock footage of the day's growing violence, etc, etc...and after you watch it, you'll want a shower) Although heavily cut, we see Susan, Daye Shinn at her side, mouthing along to Manson's response to questions coming from off screen. This gave me chills when I saw it originally, one of those things I just never forgot. Actually, aside from Hendrickson's film, it is, in a way, what got me interested in the case. So I'm curious, what is the origin of that footage? Is it real? Is there more of it? Has it ever been referenced elsewhere? Any press on it? If it has, I have never heard or seen it. Obviously there is countless hours of KTLA, UCLA, NBC, CBS, and other archive sources, I have hours and hours of that stuff myself. But I'm pretty sure it is not in any of the material I have. To be fair, I have not gone back over those tapes in years...I may have overlooked it, and now just wasting time. Your thoughts? Below is a Youtube clip, the Manson piece starts at the 5 min, 30 sec mark. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iejAeOvT1s8&feature=related[/youtube]
Yeah I need definitely need a shower :jawdrop: Great video, thanks for posting, actually the Manson part was the tamest I thought, lot of stuff here I'd never heard of. Give's you a feel of all the other stuff going on at the time. Personally, I think the Susan lip-synch thing is just editing, sounds like a CM interview in the hallway, and they showed some SA interview that happened to synch with it, I don't think she's mouthing the same words at same time etc. Also, is it me or do the 2 crime scene pics look fake? These don't look familiar and do they make sense, was Leno LaBianca wearing a blue shirt? I thought he was shirt-less. And the one with the knife in the neck doesn't seem to match the others. just my :twocents:
Also, the creepiest part to me was the shot of Jim Jones giving that speech to that huge cheering auditorium. That's probably around the number he ended up wiping out...and he has that CM type bullshit speech going...very chilling
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's just clever editing, I mean you're hearing cameras flashing away in the audio track, along with Manson's voice. and in a court room at that time, speaking to a judge, unheard of? With a cut to Manson out of nowhere? And I think you're right, the "Are you bitter?"..."No" is him, from a perp walk interview in the hallway, I think i've seen that. But was there ever even a kernel of truth to that having been attempted? My friend says he thought there was? "Make it spooky style"? I'm not sure. And even that footage of Atkins answering questions, what is that footage? I can't place it? Is she speaking to a judge there? Actual court room stock. It's really odd seeing it again. Just watching bits of that film though, not much can be trusted in it. There is, in it somewhere, the court room footage of Ted Bundy, doing his best to get tough and sound threatening, which comes of just comical.
Gosh, yes me too- that gave me the shivers. If Susan's responses were filmed simultaneously then there's some bizarre telepathy at work there. However, I would doubt that the crew had two cameras running concurrently, so maybe she was watching playback? but I am not entirely convinced. I have always found clips such as this remarkable as it seems to breach the then embargo on filming inside a courtroom. Why the press were let in at this particular stage is beyond me, and like has been said before, sections of this impromptu press conference have turned up from various news portals over the years. Collecting film relating to the case is an interesting angle to Mansonia, and pretty much a bottomless pit to what is probably languishing in film archives. Brett did a great job of liberating heaps of footage, but I dare there is a lot more around if someone has the stamina to track it down. Bill Nelson "liberated" two hours of film from KCBS-TV channel 2, and that included the amazing press conference at Spahn's for the "Lie" album. I imagine there is lots, lots more out there I'd be interested to know if there was a film report of the August 16th raid at Spahn's? Given L.A. had numerous local T.V stations, and that the police seemed keen to publicise their efforts, it may well have been covered in some shape or form. Equally, the media rush in Haight Ashbury may have captured a few of Manson's tribe. I know there is some footage of Beausoleil in Golden Gate park out there. This piece of film has bugged me over the years, and at 0.51 this *may* reveal Charlie with Squeaky at his side. Maybe it's not, and if anyone out there has a better copy please let us know. I might be reading too much into this, but it looks like a tattoo not dissimilar to Manson's on this troubadour's arm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOSZEOPeQa0 Much best Si
Thanks Simon, that "Haight Ashbury" footage was much easier going than the "Killing Of America" stuff (though I DID like Charley's one-liner about the Indians). Once again, these type of cultural artefacts really help to remind us of the social context or milieu that surrounded the Manson family. One very different from the current one. To anyone who didn't live through it (at least vicariously) it must just seem like the weirdest (and most awfully corny) shit... Yes, that could easily be a (not long out of prison) Charley trolling the hordes at 0:51... though the guitar seems a tad flash to me... I always imagined him with a beat-up nylon string for some reason. Re the Spahn raid- I seem to recall reading that the raid was actually filmed by the cops for a "commune-buster" training film or some such. Can't recall where... Sanders maybe which of course isn't too reliable a reference... but it may have been Krassner who's more reliable and at least has a sense of humour... Thanks again for the Haight footage and thanks also to Velvetstyle for "Killing Of America"- a truly epic reminder of just how nasty things can get.
Yes, now you mention it, I remember that the Spahn's raid was apparently filmed by LASO. I wonder where that is now. It may be in the vaults at LAPD with other items that have been visually documented as being there. Given the scope of what was collected, I imagine other surveillance footage might be there as well. The Haight footage was just a hunch that's all. I imagine a better quality version will surface. Yes, it's a smart guitar for the likes of Charlie, but anything is possible I imagine. I have just watched the "bitter" footage again, and, worryingly at 5.36 (if you look carefully) Sadie is mouthing the words of CM from a wider angle. Maybe the speech was prepared? I dare say a lot was orchestrated. Si
I don't think that's Charlie and Squeaky but the bus driver looks kinda like a young Morgan Freeman FB
